Yet another thread about HOTD batch carbonation

can't speak for batch 90 in particular, but i've had a few from the 70s relatively recently and they were great.

you really can't usually go wrong with adam and fred, fresh or aged. that's why it's all the more insulting to pretend that alan sprints forgot how to carbonate beer at batch 88.

 

Technically beer doesn't have to have carbonation OR hops.

 

I think we can all agree that it's usually better when it does.

 

Usually, sure. But some of the best beers I've tasted had little detectable hops (Fou Foune '11) or carbonation (Matt '10).

 

I was officially done with HotD when I read this response: http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...ross-bottles-and-batches.119464/#post-1760108.

 

Not having hops, or very little discernible hop presence, which is indictive of certain styles (lambics, gueuzes, gruits), is a far cry from not being able to properly make a beer and deriding the difficulties associated w/ bottle carbonation. (which frankly I think is BS as most other breweries seem to be able to get it right).

 

Let's take hops out of the argument, as no one is arguing that HotD doesn't properly hop its beers (or at least, that's not the point of this thread).

Everything else being equal, if you could have that Matt '10 (or any other favorite beer) with or without carbonation, which would you choose?

 

Most other breweries are not bottle conditioning. Of those that are, most are not trying to bottle condition 12-15% abv beers. There is reason for that, and it is that the results can be unpredictable. Thank goodness this industry has pioneers like Alan who are willing to try.

 

First, the beers being referenced in the threads are in the 10-12% range (so let's not exaggerate) and there are plenty of breweries bottle conditioning such beers without HotD's frequent carbonation issues. Second, HotD's QC issues are not isolated to high ABV beers.

 

When HotD is good, its very good.

But it isn't always good and anyone stating otherwise is an apologist.

 

Yep, nailed. I think this thread is over now. I sure hope so.

 

Sorry to disappoint.

I thought it was perfect basically flat. I enjoy strong, heavy-mouthfeel, spirit bbl-aged beers with very little to no carbonation. I find that carbonation detracts from or interferes with many of the flavors and textures those beers impart. I drink beers for flavor, not for carbonation. That said, I do want carbonation in my pale ales, kolsch, pilsners, gueuze, etc.

I haven't read all the threads but if we're talking HotD spirit bbl-aged beers they start around 12% and go up from there. Adam and Fred- the "lightest" beers that he bottle conditions- start at 10%, add about another 1% for the booze in the bbls, and about 1% more from (successful) bottle conditioning, and voila- about 12% minimum. These beers are not lab tested; the figure on the bottle is an estimate.

Plenty? I don't know of any aside from some Belgian producers, which may simply be because I haven't searched long & hard enough. Could you list some for me?

I never suggested otherwise.

Never said that either.
Cheers!

 

Make a list of breweries that bottle condition? Really?

 

Not really. What I was looking for was a few citations of non-Belgian breweries that bottle condition beers in excess of 11% abv. Still looking.

 

Brooklyn, Boulevard, Bruery, Alesmith, Cigar City, Prairie Artisan

 

Well okay then.
As you were.

 

Just wanted to throw my hat in the ring on the carbonation issue with Fred. I went on my honeymoon to the Pacific Northwest and brought back 2 bottles of my namesake (yup, Fred)...just cracked a bottle of Batch #93 and it's completely flat. NO carbonation whatsoever and I can't speak to anything else since it's the first time I've had it. A little frustrating...

 

Just heard the exact same thing from a friend in San Francisco about batch 93. You'd think they'd find a way to get some consistency. What's more disappointing is how they respond to comments about their flat batches. Having 88 and 93 both turn out flat is going to prevent me from searching for Fred at this point.

 

the takeaway for you east coasters should be fairly obvious, but just in case it's not...

PNW doesn't make very good beer and there's no reason to seek it out.

 

Did that post make you feel good about yourself? Did you feel manly when you posted it? I hope so.