Your best Belgian. Go.

3787 and 3522 are both great yeasts but 3787 IMO is more of a tripel yeast, whereas 3522 is great anywhere (except dark worts)

3711 has a terrible flavor profile, the whole 3711 vs 3724 thing is a bandwagon in my opinion. 3724 isnt that hard to work with, pitch the correct amount of yeast (use a starter, especially at the high gravs ppl like to make saisons) and give it some time. 3711 is bland and one dimensional compared to 3724....

 

I'm now a HUGE fan of 3726 (the Blaugies strain) - which has the complexity of 3724 but isn't as finicky. In my opinion, 3726 -> 3724 ->3711. Still really like 3711 and use it because it is such a workhorse, but flavor wise that's how I would rank them. Try 3726 if you haven't already.

Edit: and for those of you that use 3726 and like it, PLEASE send an email to Wyeast asking them to make it available year round. If enough of us do this, they might listen...

 

It does not require hot fermentation temps like 3724, although it does just fine with hot temps. When I've used it, I've pitched into 70 or 71 F wort, and let it rise on its own to 75 or 76 F. It does not stall like 3724, yet delivers a similar (maybe better for me) flavor profile. It doesn't attenuate quite as much as 3711. My 3711 beers usually finish very close to 1.000, while 3726 beers with the same grain bill will finish around 1.006 or 1.008. Requires proper pitching rate like any saison strain (only time I ever underpitch is when using brett).

I've also experimented with combining 3724 and 3726 (pitching 3726 when 3724 stalls out) with very good results.

If Wyeast made 3726 available year round, I'm not sure I'd go back to either 3724 or 3711 much at all, to be honest. 3726 would definitely be my "house" strain.

 

There seems to be a fair amount of discussion on Saison yeasts. I brewed my first Saison 15 years ago using Brewtek CL-380 yeast (which I had to culture up from a slant). That yeast strain made a tasty Saison. That strain is now available from East Coast Yeast as strain ECY14.

When Wyeast first started producing Saison yeasts as part of their VSS program I gave 3726 a try; that strain is very, very good!

I also tried 3711 when it became available as part of the VSS program. I think 3711 is a good strain but the resulting beer is a tad one dimensional to my palate (spice forward).

I brewed with 3724 once and while I liked the resulting beer I was not a fan of how long it took (I primary fermented for 4-5 weeks) and I will frankly state that I experienced a bit of anxiety during that fermentation out of concern that the fermentation would stall. Some folks will say that as long as you give it enough time it, 3724 will always reach a low final gravity. Too many people have posted that 3724 has stalled out on them. A local brewpub used 3724 to brew a Saison and that beer stalled at a final gravity > 1.010 (I think the brewer told me it stopped at 1.016).

I have brewed a number of Saison beers using a variety of strains and my favorite strains are:

1. East Coast Yeast ECY08
2. White Labs Saison III (WLP585)
3. Wyeast 3726

Cheers!

P.S. I have sent several e-mails to Wyeast requesting that they make 3726 a year round yeast (my first e-mail was in 2008).

 

100% Pilsner to about 1.050
(1.5 Hour boil)

Nugget @60
EKG @10
Styrian @FO

Wyeast 3726 (Mr. Malty recommended pitching rate)
Fermented at room temp, so mid-70's.

The resulting beer was damn near indistinguishable from Lost Abbey's Red Barn.

 

what is the general consensus on wheat in a saison? Traditionally you wouldn't do this, correct?

 

What sort of pitching rate do you suggest? I underpitch by as much as 50% , usually more like 25-30% though, compared to, say, an APA or something. I primarily use 3522/550. (except in witbiers and saisons)

 

Traditionally, farmers would use whatever grains they had on hand to brew saisons with, so wheat would be used if available. Today, Brasserie de Blaugies makes Saison D'Epeautre, which uses epeautre (aka "blé des Gaulois") which is a type of spelt (hulled wheat). It's a really wonderful example of the style.

 

Since everybody is jumping on the 3726 bandwagon, I'll throw this into the mix:
http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/2012-saison-project-fruit
The Amarillo/Citra combo really went well with the fruity/bubblegum esters of the yeast. If I did it again, I'd simplify the malt bill, give it a bit more crystal malt, up the IBUs, and add little bit more late/dry hops to turn it into a Belgian IPA.

 

Good thread, I feel like I've spent too much time experimenting with getting an ideal "Belgian IPA" and often find that the hops do not play well with the yeast flavors. 3711 might be the best exception for me but I'm also enjoying playing with the Trois strain from WL in 100% Brett ferments, and Ardennes does OK. On the other hand I really enjoy the DeKonninck strain, the Orval w/o the Brett strain, the DuPont and the Westmalle strains more in beers where the hops play a more muted role (traditional hops and/or a very light hand on hopping), often what might be called Belgian singles, table beers, or BPAs. Not to thread jack but what are your favorite yeast/hop combos when you want a Belgian/French ale with west coast or southern hemisphere hops?

 

The only one I've tried combined brett trois yeast with galaxy hops, and it turned out great. Recipe for it is above. I'm doing the same recipe again this week, but replacing galaxy with nelson sauvin.

 

3711 or 3726, but it is kinda a case by case basis. I did not like a beer I made that was 3726 w/ centennial taking the lead, but 3726 w/ Amarillo is one of my favorite beers I've ever made. 3711 will stay out of the way with some heavier hopping.

 

Wow saison and witbier seems to have become the focus of this discussion. What are people's favourite belgian strong, i.e. blonde, dubbed, triple, quad, golden strong and dark strong? I am interested in throwing down a strong belgian soon and would love to hear some peoples recipes and experiences.

 

I use some wheat malt in my Saisons. As to whether or not wheat (malted or unmalted) is traditional, I'm not sure anyone really knows, but the author of Farmhouse Ales seems to think it's likely.

 

cool, thank you for the info. I am brewing my 2nd Saison this weekend, was thinking about adding some wheat but I haven't come across any recipes that did so I was wondering if this was out of style. Got a couple tips from this thread. Much thanks

 

In the "Farmhouse Brewing Then and Now" chapter of "Farmhouse Ales: Culture and Craftsmanship in the Belgian Tradition", Markowski discusses a 1895 article entitled "Brewing in Belgium and Belgian Beers" written by brewing scientist George Maw Johnson, who recorded various aspects of Belgian farmhouse ales, including grains used. It clearly states "varying amounts of raw wheat, oats, or corn were sometimes added". See page 12 and 13 of the book.

 

I don't have the book in front of me, but was that in reference to Saison, or to Farmhouse Ales in general?

 

This is in reference to Belgian beers made by farmers. In 1895, the farmers, who mostly produced beers for their own consumption, didn't label their beers as "saisons" necessarily.