Zombie Beer Brands

Discussion in 'Article Comments' started by BeerAdvocate, Jul 7, 2017.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,653) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    “Point 1: Good beer is good beer, no matter who makes it.

    Point 2: Even if ABI owned breweries make good beer, he won't drink it.”

    As a practical matter those two points seem to be contradictory as in how would somebody know/recognize that non-independent brewery is produced good beer if they refuse to drink it?

    Also, BA pat61 stated: “When ordering a beer for personal enjoyment I order a craft beer as defined by the Brewer's Association.”

    This is not just an ABI issue, pat61 would refuse to drink beers brewed by Lagunitas, Ballast Point, Founders,…

    Cheers!
     
  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    But he, very well, could have consumed said beers before they were purchased.
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,653) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I suppose we could guess anything here until we hear further.

    P.S. There were beer brands that have come out solely after breweries were declared to be non-independent (e.g., Lagunitas 12th of Never Ale).
     
  4. pat61

    pat61 Poo-Bah (5,858) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota
    Society

    Easy, when I am evaluating a beer, I am generally by myself in a location free of distractions. I evaluate it and post it here and also elsewhere. I will evaluate anything anyone puts in front of me and anything I can find. I have evaluated many beers that I would not drink for pleasure.

    When I am drinking beer for pleasure, I am not evaluating it in the same way. If i am buying beer for pleasure I make a point of buying craft beer for many of the same reasons that Jason and Todd mentioned in their editorial.
     
  5. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,908) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Yes, thanks. I was imprecise (a face-saving way of saying "wrong") in that what I wrote is not exactly what I was trying to convey. They did not have the "dominant" market share they enjoy today for "much" of the post prohibition era.
     
  6. pat61

    pat61 Poo-Bah (5,858) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota
    Society

    You are absolutely right. And they also did and still do a lot of stuff - like delivering a fresh quality product to marker, and ensuring that the product arrives fresh to the consumer - that craft beer better figure out if it wants to remain viable.

    I never said that they were dumbing down beer. I said that they were making beer all alike and we might infer from that they they were brewing to the lowest common denominator. During the post war period we also saw Wonder Bread, Velveta Cheese, TV dinners, and other atrocious concoctions. Advertising spent a good deal of effort trying to make both the products and the market as uniform as possible. There are definite connections between craft beer, craft cheese, craft bread etc. and it is a rejection of that uniformity.
     
  7. pat61

    pat61 Poo-Bah (5,858) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota
    Society

    You are kind of the encyclopedia of beer knowledge that pops up whenever needed. You also appear to remember everything anyone posts and keep us honest. Thank you!
     
  8. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    There are indeed the connections you suggest, and many folks don't recognize that they are there. And I'd say you're spot on that it is a rejection of uniformity.

    All those changes have been driven by changes in popular tastes in consumers. Advertising didn't cause such things to happen, since it only serves to inform people of alternatives and attempts to make one of them more desirable. There's actually a reasonable generalization about advertising. "The greater the frequency of advertising for competing products the less differentiation that actually exists among those products being advertised."

    Artisanal bread bakers didn't advertise more than the makers of "wallpaper paste" bread. Artisanal cheese makers didn't advertise more than the makers of Cheese Whiz. Flavorful beer brewers have not advertised more than Big Beer brands. Yet all three have grown, and that growth of all three has taken place despite advertising/marketing on the part of the big kids.
     
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  9. pat61

    pat61 Poo-Bah (5,858) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota
    Society

    I think we are both on the edge of something important, that might benefit our children if we could explain it better. Instead, i think I will have a beer but I think you have made an important comment.
     
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  10. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I'll be joining you on that beer in about 20 min or so.
     
  11. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,076) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Yeah, and that's also the irony of the constant boasting about "5000+ breweries" today - AB has about twice the market share today than it did when there were only ~50 US brewing companies left at the dawn of "Craft" era...
     
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  12. pat61

    pat61 Poo-Bah (5,858) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota
    Society

    As we said during the 60's - "If not now, when?"
     
  13. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,794) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    As someone who has spent the better part of the last 35 years or so going out of my way to get the beer, food, movies, music, books, etc. , that I prefer, it never dawned on me to blame major corporations for keeping it from me; rather, I always thought "why is everyone else so stupid." :wink::slight_smile:
     
  14. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Meyvn (1,428) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska
    Trader

    I know it's just an example, but I think I would prefer the taste of a Blue Moon over an Oberon.

    That probably is sacrilege coming from a poster with a Michigan location tag, but in fairness, I am an adopted Michigander, being from Kansas originally...

    Of course, they are different styles (witbier vs. American wheat) in spite of being within the same "wheat beer" order, so personal stylistic preference certainly comes into play.

    Spot on.

    The more unique your product, the more it "sells itself", as it were. Advertising is but a small subdivision of marketing and is generally used for increasing consumer awareness about the existence of your product, and communicating what makes it more worthy of purchase than other, competing products.

    Craft Beer is a perfect example of how a product class can grow in market share without the traditional, expensive forms of advertising (TV, radio) because it presents something so different than the established product options.
     
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  15. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Perhaps it never occurred to you because you recognized that businesses won't grow if they ignore their customers? :wink:
     
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  16. zach60614

    zach60614 Aspirant (225) May 1, 2012 Illinois

    I'll tell you how, I can actually buy it now.
     
  17. dlcarst

    dlcarst Initiate (106) Aug 21, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    I just got my magazine, read this article, and was prepared to rant about the full-page Goose Island ads that appear every month on the pages of the mag (and Blue Moon, Lagunitas, and other beerglomerate brands), but I see there are none this month. I hope BA puts its money where its mouth is and only sells ad space to independent breweries.
     
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  18. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,136) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Read Beer Smack next month for our thoughts on this.
     
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  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,481) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    The BA recently banned conglomerates from buying endcap space at GABF. Looks like Beer Advocate is following suit. Lines are being drawn friends.
     
  20. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    IMO, it's about time for this type of congruence. I don't necessarily agree with it, but if you're going to make a stand against something, you probably shouldn't take money from them any more.
     
  21. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,653) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Jason, do you have any further insight on this topic. BIG beer like ABI, MilleCoors, Constellation (Ballast Point),... are members of the Brewers Association. Does it make sense for a the Brewers Association which is an organization for brewers, including the ones I mentioned above, to make distinctions here? I certainly could understand this move if ABI, MillerCoors,... were not members but since they are?

    Cheers!
     
  22. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,481) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    From what I read the decision was made to support independent craft over billion dollar conglomerates. The BA charges a percentage of a breweries output, so the BA is making a huge statement by taking pay cuts for these end cap spaces at GABF and forcing conglomerates into regular table spots.
    @drewbage @hopfenunmaltz
     
  23. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,826) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Society

    They are Assosciate Members, not voting members. What all of the details are, I don't know.

    There are Craft breweries that are members of the Beer Institute. What level they are at I don't know.
     
  24. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,653) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Jeff, could you please further educate me on the aspects of membership to the Brewers Association?

    I went here: https://www.brewersassociation.org/membership/membership-types/brewery/

    As near as I can figure out brewery membership dues are predicated on annual production values. It seems to me that AB and MillerCoors would be paying more annual dues than breweries like Sierra Nevada and other smaller independent breweries.

    Cheers!
     
  25. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,826) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Society

    I don't know the details for that. If you scroll through the states you see big breweries that are associate members - in CA Ballast Point and the ABInBev breweries in CA. You will see some that are not members at any level.

    https://www.brewersassociation.org/directories/breweries/

    I will also say that I do not know what a craft brewery is charged to be a member of the Beer Institute.
     
  26. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,653) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I tried to figure put what "associate member" means as regards the Brewers Association and I came up empty.

    The link that I provided to you where you can calculate brewery membership dues had no pull down or whatever for type of brewery membership.

    Quite a vexing topic.:confused:

    Cheers!
     
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