Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #9 - Consider Adjuncts?

Voted for unmalted grain only. With these yeasts, this beer doesnt need any help drying out. And the adjuncts will help keep the FG around our target...in theory anyway. (I honestly don't know if unmalted grains are better at leaving body than adjusting the mash temp upward.) Nonetheless, I don't see sugar or honey etc. adding any worthwhile character here, but I think some flaked rye, wheat or oats can.

 

I voted for nada..

I have a feeling people will be pushing the brett fermentation, especially us keggers.

On the flipside, I don't mind leaving some food for bacteria. The OG will be low enough I might be able to pull off 10 gallons.

 

Agree with @FeDUBBELFIST can't imagine that adding sugar in any form is a good idea. I'm no brett or saison expert, but my reading leads me to believe that something like rye or wheat or maybe spelt could be nice from both a mouthfeel and a flavor point of view.

What about other malted grains? Rye Malt,... is that a different poll?

 

What do you mean "pushing the brett fermentation"?

 

I have a feeling people will be impatient with allowing the 644 to do it's deal. Luckily, I think the beer will benefit with the fruit notes early, and people will experience the change as time passes.

The brett won't need a ton of the unfermentables that sach won't be able to handle. I don't feel the need to load this beer up with unmalted grains and adjuncts. We can mash slightly higher, and have a nice clean, crips, funky and fruity saison without them.

Just my opinion, and I'm game for the outcome, I'm getting ingredients ready as we move on.

 

I voted for non-grain adjuncts...not necessarily because I want to use them...but want to have the option at this point. However, I admit this may be due to my lack of experience with Brett.

 

Must.....have....flaked.....oats.....

 

Surprised there are so many votes for unmalted adjuncts. I could see a little wheat.

 

Unmalted grains seem appropriate in a farmhouse kind of beer; thus my vote.

 

Agree. Just because an ingredient has attributes in some styles doesn't mean it will always work. Saisons traditionally have very simple grain bills. Very simple.

 

My feelings really.. I find farmhouse beers to be simple, very simple. The yeast, the time, the environment, will dictate how it comes out. Rustic comes to mind.

But, hey.. if we can help this beer along, I'm looking for super crushable, simple, clean, crips, ester filled, funky and fruity saison.

 

I voted for unmalted. Flaked wheat or oats would go well with the super low OG and Brett's tendency to break down glycosides and thin out the body. Traditionally Saisons are simple, yes, as stated above, but that simplicity historically included the use of unmalted grains such as oats or wheat.

 

We should put some wheat and oats in the mix.

 

Unmalted grains. Only because I've used flaked oats in saisons before, with good results.

 

So, does this preclude adding something like wheat or rye? If so, why? All that you described doesn't seem to preclude adding some unmalted grain.

 

This poll is asking if we want to use unmalted grain or sugar. So even if we voted no on all of the options we'll still have the ability to vote for in a later poll for
wheat malt
rye malt
oat malt

I personally like using rye malt to spice things up in my saisons.

 

I would like to clarify: Old timey Saisons used whatever was grown within a days journey in a wagon. Modern Saisons use simple grain bills. It common to see Pilsner only . . . yep, 100% Pilsner shows up in current top Saisons. When commercial brewers expand the grain bill, typically it will be one or two additions only, anything over is pushing the limit. So while you do see wheat, or rye or spelt or Munich or maybe even unmalted grains, it is not common to add all of these ingredients. Simple is good.

For the non-grain/both voters; you are talking simple sugars here. But the recipe is a 5.7% beer with a 96% attenuationing yeast. The ship has sailed on making this a higher ABV brew (me standing on the dock). While rock candy, corn/beet sugar, or honey can be delightful in a high ABV Belgian beer, we shouldn't be trying to dry this out anymore. As it stands, for a 1.045 OG beer, we are only looking at about 8 lbs of grain . . . do you sugar voters really want to pull more grain to make room for simple sugars? That's what will happen if sugar is added. This brings up the "what is the minimum grain you can mash" question. I say we need to leave some real meat & potatoes for the yeast to do their job.

The nature of polling is to keep adding ingredients that have worked in the past. But let's keep this in the context of a moderately low ABV beer with a super-attentuating yeast. Vikeman's averagely-polling allows the members to add just about anything, if enough people write in cacao nibs or dark crystal malt it will end up in the mix. If the format would allow, I would like to see a maximum number of additions allowed. Maybe a little restraint will give us something more tasty.

 

Everything he said: YES! Over course I still stand by my vote for unmalted grains like wheat or oats, maybe rye, but I will be voting for one, maybe two of these with Pils, possibly some Vienna or Munich. I think 1-2 grains besides Pils will be the tops for this. Saison is designed to be expressive and complex from the yeast, not hops and malts.

 

This seems like a run away, nice! I always add a little flaked wheat or oats to my saisons. I think it really help the mouthfeel of a highly attenuated beer.