It's high time that we update Beer Styles!

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jun 21, 2020.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    It's been nearly two years since we've updated our Beer Styles, so I think it's high time for another round of updates.

    First, I'm looking for feedback from users who want to help me continue to expand and evolve our listing of styles. If you think there are two many styles or that we should consolidate styles, then this thread isn't for you and I ask that you not make it about that.

    Second, I've reviewed feedback from the last update and gathered most of the suggestions. Here are style that were the most requested:
    • American India Pale Lager (IPL)
    • American Kettle Sour
    • American Pastry Stout
    • American Pilsner
    • English Golden Ale
    • New England Imperial India Pale Ale (NEIIPA)
    • New England Pale Ale (NEPA)
    • Milkshake India Pale Ale (MIPA)
    • Radler / Shandy
    And here are other user suggestions for consideration:
    • American Kettle Sour with Fruit
    • Asian Lager
    • Belgian Grisette
    • Dutch Joppenbier
    • Dutch Koyt
    • German Adambier
    • German Dampfbier
    • German Kottbusser
    • German Leichtbier
    • German Lichtenhainer
    • German Steinbier
    • German Zoigl
    • Kentucky Common
    • Polish Grodziskie (Grätzer)
    Any others? Let me know.

    Finally, I plan on staying on top of Beer Styles going forward by creating a style council with quarterly reviews. More on this later...

    In the meantime, thanks in advance for your help.
     
    #1 Todd, Jun 21, 2020
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  2. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,338) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    • American India Pale Lager (IPL)
    • American Pastry Stout
    • English Golden Ale
    • New England Imperial India Pale Ale (NEIIPA)
    • Milkshake India Pale Ale (MIPA)
    • Radler / Shandy
    All very much in my opinion been a bit of an issue not being styled, but I would also venture coffee stouts & imperial coffee stouts and international pales & IPAs for those brewed with Australian/Japanese/New Zealand hops.
     
    #2 EmperorBevis, Jun 21, 2020
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  3. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Devotee (388) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Trader

    Are you suggesting breaking down Pales and IPAs based on the region the hops were grown? That seems too complex. I do like the idea of international versions though.
     
    #3 Skeeter17, Jun 21, 2020
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  4. morimech

    morimech Grand Pooh-Bah (3,803) Nov 6, 2006 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I do not think there needs to be two separate listings for American Kettle Sour. And who is going to edit all of those out of the Berliner Weiss listings? I think Radler/Shandy would be a good addition. Wasn't there an American Pilsner and American Imperial Pilsner listing back in the day? And Milkshake IPA is an abomination that should not even exist. I do not think any of the more esoteric styles need a listing. Kentucky Common and Grodziskie had a surge a couple years back but that has faded. But if you have a bunch of people on the site that want these styles listed, go for it.
     
    #4 morimech, Jun 21, 2020
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  5. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Fantastic! Really excited for these changes. For the ones you plan on adding, I think they are all much needed and excellent choices.

    As for the ones under consideration, I think they also should be added. I am especially excited about the prospect of the addition of the Grodziskie, Lichtenhainer, Zoigl, and grisette. I know they are kind of obscure (well not the grisette), but they also are very hard to fit into other styles.

    I have one additional style suggestion to add in there - Czech Dark lagers. These really don't neatly fall into any of the other categories they are usually added under such as schwarzbier, euro dark lager or dunkels. They are a clear style in the Czech Republic and surrounding areas, so why not add it as a style here.
     
    #5 FBarber, Jun 21, 2020
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  6. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,790) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Are there enough examples to warrant the Hellesbock?
     
    #6 Urk1127, Jun 21, 2020
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  7. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,790) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Also double post sorry. This is all very awesome
     
    #7 Urk1127, Jun 21, 2020
  8. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Pooh-Bah (2,825) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Funny you bring this up. I added a beer yesterday that the brewery called a French Saison but the only one listed was Belgian Saison.

    I put the difference in the notes. I’ve done this in the past when unable to find the style the brewery wrote on the can/bottle.
     
    #8 JLK7299, Jun 21, 2020
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  9. morimech

    morimech Grand Pooh-Bah (3,803) Nov 6, 2006 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought it use to be listed as Maibock/Helles Bock a few years ago but I could be mistaken.
     
    #9 morimech, Jun 21, 2020
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  10. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yea, that should be classified under the maibock listing.
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/styles/33/
     
    #10 FBarber, Jun 21, 2020
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  11. acurtis

    acurtis Grand Pooh-Bah (4,540) Sep 27, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    #11 acurtis, Jun 21, 2020
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  12. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,790) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    One more post then I’m done. Just a nerd here. Any thought on styles that aren’t around anymore just as a nod to them. Paterbier. Pre prohibition styles. Burton ales. Etc. I’m sure there are others.
     
    #12 Urk1127, Jun 21, 2020
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  13. beersampler6

    beersampler6 Pooh-Bah (2,306) Apr 4, 2018 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I definitely agree with these two. Too many NE imperial IPAs get lumped into the “regular” imperial IPA category when they’re just too distinct and different.

    And radlers belong in their own category since they’re so unlike any other genre of beer.
     
    #13 beersampler6, Jun 21, 2020
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  14. paulish

    paulish Grand Pooh-Bah (3,264) Feb 2, 2014 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Double Milk Stout
     
    #14 paulish, Jun 21, 2020
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  15. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    I'd favor "flavored" stouts, not limiting it to just coffee.
     
    #15 MNAle, Jun 21, 2020
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  16. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Wouldn't that be covered by the "pastry stout" style?
     
    #16 FBarber, Jun 21, 2020
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  17. Sound_Explorer

    Sound_Explorer Grand Pooh-Bah (3,044) Dec 29, 2013 Washington
    Pooh-Bah

    Would it be too nitpicky to add Golden Stout? Seen a few more of those the past few months than I ever have. Maybe too niche yet.
     
    #17 Sound_Explorer, Jun 21, 2020
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  18. rudzud

    rudzud Initiate (0) Apr 28, 2010 Massachusetts
    In Memoriam

    Back with it was simply 'Saison/Farmhouse' that would catch Arthur no problem.

    IPL has been a long time coming considering how long Jack's Abby has been around for. I don't know how I feel about 'pastry stout' considering the amount of random crap that gets thrown in to stouts now and the designation of that as opposed to it simply just being a stout or imperial stout (unless denoted by the brewery).
    I think Todd you'll need to have strict definitions on what makes what for each style. I can envision a wave of new england IPAs being added as 'milkshake ipas' just because they're hazy, as opposed to having lactose.
    Does Imperial Milk Stout have a listing? If not it should considering the push that style is getting right now.
    Also, different between 'English Golden Ale' and "American Golden Ale' ? Why not just simply go with 'Golden Ale'
     
    #18 rudzud, Jun 21, 2020
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  19. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,338) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    No, there are ales that blend hops of different country origins & even though that would really appeal to my stat obsessed mind that’s not the intention of my request.
    It’s just that there are Pales & IPAs that just taste & feel dramatically different to US or U.K. that another option is required and International sounds a bit classier than ‘other’ lol.
     
    #19 EmperorBevis, Jun 21, 2020
  20. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Coffee + pastry would not cover all the different flavoring additives being used, would it?
     
    #20 MNAle, Jun 21, 2020
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