The difference between Pale Ale and IPA

Hey buddy, I'd buy you a beer if I could. Ale or lager, your choice.

Feel free to read your post again. I was just replying to the words you typed. It seemed as though you were genuinely confused by the fact that India pale ales are, in fact, just one variety of ales. You didn't say you used to be confused; you said, "And I am pretty sure ... that, to make things even MORE confusing, some brews are listed as ALES that are, without question, IPA's."

Now, I can't help being a little sarcastic about that, when it's honestly the simplest, most effective way to convey my meaning. I'm more than half a century old and, frankly, sarcasm is in my nature. But I sincerely meant no offense, just having a bit of fun.

Anyway, if I had said something factual and objective like, "@peteboiler, IPAs are ales, by definition," or, "@peteboiler, all IPAs are ales but not all ales are IPAs," or, "@peteboiler, IPA is an abbreviation for India pale ale," would that have come across any better? Somehow I doubt it.

Cheers brother.

 

I’m FAR from an expert in mycology, but are mushrooms...etc. constantly evolving, or at the very least, evolving as constantly as beer styles?

While I agree with your assessment of the BJCP description as being ripe for debate, they do adjust them every few years to keep up with the times. And those guidelines are good enough to be used for a home brew competition.

Also bear in mind that they’re just that...guidelines. Not hard and fast rules.

 

For me the difference is balance. An APA generally has evenly balanced hop and malt character. IPAs being more hop forward, the scale tips more toward the hop character, primarily in the bitterness. I also feel as though there are quite a few breweries that simply choose to use the IPA category because that's a bigger seller than pale ales.

 

First we need to answer the question what are the purposes of beer styles? Is it just for competitions? Or is it to aid consumers in choosing beers they will like? Or to aid brewers in making beers that are ones consumers will want to choose? Or something else?

 

With all due respect Dave, that sounds like an unappealing place to put beer. (I’m sure others will disagree with me.) Sometimes a bit of dirt isn’t entirely a bad thing. The patina, murkiness, history, and cultural ties of beer naming are what give it some of its soul. Not everything in life should be viewed solely through the lens of a hermetically sealed scientific formula because of the benefits provided. I imagine you see the value in utilizing something that works really well if it’s supposed to work, but I think there’s more to lose than there is to gain from such an approach in this case.

 

I for one don't mind seeing a six pack of Dale's Pale Ale on the shelf and saying to myself--"they CALL it a pale ale but it's REALLY an IPA."

 

Then along comes a smart ass brewer and brews a 4% abv Session Ipa which completely skewers the notion you can separate by characteristics or abv. Maybe there needs to strictly a category for beers out of range and a bit gimmicky. You could also put Dry IPAs into that bracket. After all you can fairly separate APA/ IPA/ DIPA/TIPA easily enough, it’s the gimmicky ones that upset the cart. But in reality these difference are really only for competition purposes perhaps, because if a brewery brews a beer people will readily buy it seems to matter little what you call it. Zombie Dust is a prime example, it’s highly regarded and sells very well, it’s a PA that is very hop forward and lack the subtlety of say SNPA. But as a practical matter who cares, If you like it you buy it and move on.

 

Quite a few people responded that the difference is how balanced the hop and malt flavors and aromas are. An issue with that is what is perfectly balanced to some will be malt forward or hop forward to others.

 

Kolsch is an obergariges lagerbier in Germany, it is a top fermented beer subsequently lagered. I do wish that American beer writers would remember that Ale and Stout brewing were at one time separate industries. Every pub in the UK advertises Ales And Stouts. Not all top fermented beers are Ales, Stout and Kolsch are examples.

 

4% session beers called IPA have been common for a century or so. The best selling cask beers in the UK include Greene King IPA and Deuchars IPA, both comfortably under 4%. This is a consequence of history, in the 19 century IPA was commonly the weakest beer in the range, and this continued through two wars during which beer strength was reduced.

 

What is: India.

 

I'll have "Beer" for 200, Alex.

"The most popular nation on beer labels."

 

I admire your Don Quixote-like passion!

 

Yeah, I hate the tendency ro break everything down into ales vs lagers. While I do believe the term lager, along with abv and color, will give you some sense of what you are getting, ales (as in top fermenting beers) are way too diverse. When I hear "ale", I tend to think of the English tradition of balanced beers, which can include pale, amber, blonde, brown, pld, strong, bitter, etc. In my mind, stouts, porters, sours, wheats are not the same. I also don't think IPA when I see the word "ale".

 

Do these English sub 4% IPA share the unpleasant tendency to be completely unbalanced and hopelessly over bitter like American Session IPAs? Not all “American session IPAs” fit that description, but you see the abv start to creep up a bit as well.

 

Well, how are they supposed to work? For this we need to answer the question what are the purposes of beer styles? Is it just for competitions? Or is it to aid consumers in choosing beers they will like? Or to aid brewers in making beers that are ones consumers will want to choose? Or something else? Perhaps you'd like to include an explanation that answers this?

 

I’m over my head in this conversation, but I think competitions are a small piece of they puzzle. Winning a medal is prestigious and might very well help sales, so money’s involved. I’m sure there’s many other pieces to this as well, but I hate getting snowballed in beer nomenclature. Used to be a time you’d buy strictly on the brewer, but those days might be in the rear view, some exceptions obviously.

 

Many folks also don't understand that "To Lager" is also a thing... average person still says "wait I wanted a lager" after you pour a pilsner.

Jeff from Beervana has some thoughts about the pale ale and language. Figure it's some good reading and perspective.
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2019/8/15/pales-in-flux
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2020/9/16/terminology-and-average-beer-drinkers

@cavedave
I think setting aside the specificity that brewers and historians offer would be beneficial for the coming "style name" paradigm shift. With more and more novice beer drinkers getting into the culture its important for things to be linguistically hospitable. The scene is changing so fast that adding more styles will only confuse people further, despite our intention of accurately communicating what is in the can. If you look at untappdwtf people say the strangest things: "I asked for the local IPA but it says New England," or "Amazing! fruity and thick, cool buttery finish." They just don't know anything, and it's especially hard when we cant even get over the "something hoppy" speed bump. (and to define hoppy as hot side vs cold side or varietals is too much)

Beer runs into so many problems because what actually distinguishes brews is nerdy processes, and more often then not the process can be replicated, especially in America. In the world of wine, for example, general style and process are communicated simply thorough place which implies (or mandates) tradition of process. Average wine drinkers don't need to know vinification to communicate what they like, but it certainly helps (new vs neutral oak is a big one). I honestly think that people try beer because they think its less complicated than wine, but are then met with a technically nebulous wildly diverse landscape; resulting in the fruit juice, easy accessible nostalgic, beers that have taken over the hype.

I almost lost sleep over menu formatting: Will Taras Boulba sell more grouped with the other beers from Belgium or American hoppy things, is that misleading? What are the guests expectations for the Belgian section? Lambic should certainly not go there... Should the Dunkel live next to the pilsners? Or is someone who might like it going to look for in in the "Dark Beer (whatever)" section? Or do we have enough options to have a German section, is that even helpful?

My favorite type of beer is "buckwheat mixed culture brett driven primary fermented in stainless then racked onto stone fruit and lagered in foeder." Where does that fit into things?

 

I picture a system that is manageable, logical, brewer friendly, consumer friendly, consistent, adaptable, and accepted all over the world. I guess this improved, or brand new, system won't offer the nostalgic comfort of using style names long established, but in every other way IMO it would be a great benefit.

 

Pre-pandemic I used to fairly regularly go to a local craft beer bar and in their beer menu they would separate the beers they have on tap based upon the beer’s sensory qualities. I wish I could provide you with a link that showed their draft beer menu.

From memory they had broad categories such as:

· Hoppy

· Malty

· Light colored/flavor

· Etc.

This structure made a lot of sense to me.

Cheers!