Elevating Premium Lager

Yeah, I understand all that, but I wasn't comparing homebrewing costs to commercial costs. I was only comparing ingredient costs between two different recipes, and the 12% difference that I calculated very well may also apply to a commercial brewery when comparing their bulk costs, or maybe within one percentage point.

And applying that 12% to a retail price of a commercially-produced beer price is valid because all of the brewery's fixed costs, as well as the distributor's and retailer's costs are already built into that 6-pack's price, and those fixed costs wouldn't change between two beers that come from the same brewery but each has slightly different ingredients. (Using the same brewing procedures, I e. not comparing an ale to a lager process.)

So I agree that your points are valid, but they don't all apply to the restricted pricing comparison that I was computing as a general estimate. I still like my 12% figure.

 

And it also answers the question*:

(Hint: $)

* But no one really asks that question anymore, do they? They just spend their money on gasoline to drive to the brewery and buy the beer. Often they tip the poorly paid employees, because, really how can you expect a little local brewery to afford to pay their workers a decent working wage?

 

I think you're over the target for sure. An unfortunate number of beer consumers these days seem to look down on beer that just uses water, malt, hops, and yeast. And if it does have just those, it sure as hell better have some proprietary (preferably as yet unnamed) hop varieties.

That said, clearly some larger craft brewers are clearly making things work with an AAL beer at higher than macro prices. Although they are also markedly lower than typical craft prices.

 

Doug mentioned Nite Lite by Night Shift Brewing out of Boston, which I believe has comparable pricing for 12 packs. I believe the Trumer Pils / North Coast Scrimshaw offerings are also consistent with how interpreted competitive lagers in terms of quality and pricing in the current market. Thought of Founder's Solid Gold for the AAL market.

I mentioned linked the all malt Cold Time Lager @jesskidden , because that beer is being offered for $1 less a pint onsite than their other standard offerings, and was the product I had in mind in terms of what Revolution would offer if competing in the Lager space, not the AAL space.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22072/633329/

https://untappd.com/b/revolution-brewing-company-cold-time/5158674

 

Is that a draft only product (only available at the taprooms)?

If Cold Time was a packaged (canned) product would you buy it? How much would you be willing to pay for a six-pack?

Cheers!

 

Two of these questions were answered were in my original post. I'd definitely pay in the range of their other city series beers (Rev Pils, Fist City Pale Ale, RIP Cross of Gold - their previous blonde ale "value" taproom offering) $17-$18 12 X 12 oz (IIRC $9 six pack), though can find on these on sale for $1-$2 less. I would pay what they charge for their IPA 12 packs (not on sale $19-$21) - I rounded up the penny for pricing. It would take time and marketing to build up the brand to the point where the mainstream beer buyer would consider.

This beer was released taproom only in December 2022, perhaps it was available for brewery tour groups prior. Per my discussion with one of their taproom managers, this beer has been a hit among staff and people who sampled after brewery tours. I also loved it and have ordered one or two each trip to their taproom since I first tried it. And I love most of their beers, it's not as though I only like a couple options and stick with this one due to lack of quality options.

I personally prefer 16 oz cans for 4-7 % ABV beers, but understand the 12 oz can format would be the best in terms of competing against other lagers in the grocery / big box space. Would pay the premium for 16 oz X 4 packs out of the taproom, as I prefer drinking one beer a day at home (most days).

 

Thanks for that reply. For some reason I 'missed' your prior post (#6).

Hopefully @BeerCruncher is following this thread since your input may be very useful.

Cheers!

 

Was looking for Denim Tux from Bow and Arrow Brewings in ABQ last night, didn't see it at the store in Santa Fe. Can't say the price now, will find it somewhere out here. I've had it many times, a lovely Pro Pro Pilsner, that can be found on draft in some nice restaurants here as it is food friendly.

The Brewery is owned by two Native Americans. They use local ingredients when they can Denim Tux uses New Mexico Blue Corn as the adjunct. The color doesn't carry over to the finished beer, had to mention that.

 

Well, *I* do.

I'm very discerning on my choices based on history and experience with the brewery. Once bitten, twice shy with $12 four-packs -- and rarely (ever?) go past that price point. Not made of money these days.

 

Jeff, Confluence Brewing Co.’s uses blue corn to make their beer: Blue Corn Lager.

"Blue Corn Lager is made like a classic American Pilsner with a twist. Blue corn makes a sweet wort, with a little bit of that corn chip flavor." — John Martin”

https://byo.com/recipe/confluence-brewing-co-s-blue-corn-lager-clone/

While drinking Denim Tux did you perceive any flavors of corn chips?

Cheers!

Jack

 

I think these two illustrate my point somewhat. These are both legit, fairly traditional, European style pilsners. To me, that's enough of a distinction from a "premium lager" in the American tradition.

While we are about 12 years into the decade of next year being the year of the lager, the reality (from what I see and hear) is that there are not too many quality pilsners that are easily accessible and less that 2x the price of your macro 12 packs. And I think if you venture beyond the pilsner into other basic European lager styles you've got only very localized competition. That's where I see business opportunity if you want to "elevate (the price of) lager". You're only potentially competing against imports, which carries a higher price expectation as well as a incredibly lax freshness expectation.

I've just not seen any examples of "craft" examples of AAL or other "american lagers" that succeed at any scale without being withing 25% of the macros price wise.

 

I think some folks misunderstood the scope of this post. It's just about the branding and messaging of a lager made by a craft brewery who is competing for a similar occasion as many macro brands, but who is unable to compete on price. Say you've got a winning recipe that you want to create the cans and boxes for, what points are you driving home to consumers on the packaging? Those were my 4 primary angles to choose from, but I saw some good responses, with this being my favorite:

The challenge here is that with so many craft breweries being under 10 years old, often times that's not a great option to hang your hat on. There's of course exceptions, like you may have hired a brewmaster with 20 years experience to help found your brewery in say 2015. So the experience is in the brewmaster, more so than the brewery/brand. Tricky to work onto the packaging unless it's part of a longer story/write-up on the side of the can, but definitely an interesting option if the shoe fits.

Thanks for sharing @Todd

 

Not really. I'm out here for a while and will eventually have it again. Will look for the corn chip flavor.

 

Agreed. Make it all malt. Kirin Ichiban Shibori, Sapporo's Yebisu (nationwide) and Sapporo Classic (mostly Hokkaido) are three example of all malt mass produced beer that are pretty darn tasty and let's say on average 8% higher in cost compared to other Japanese rice lagers.

The 4 x 16oz American craft lagers priced at $16-$20 rarely get put in my cart.

 

Trumer at $8.99 for a six pack of cans is certainly hard to beat in the current market. Looking forward to the company to put out a Helles of equal quality at the same price point or less.

 

I suppose what I don't understand is 1) why does a craft brewer need to compete in that space? Or perhaps better said, aren't there many classic lager styles from around Europe that fill that same niche but aren't readily available at cheap prices? And 2) are there really many examples of breweries producing successful AALs that move at a considerable volume without getting the price down into the same price ballpark as the top end AALs?

It strikes me as a bit of advice that some sliver of craft brewers at the top end, or perhaps a brewer from one of the big boys looking to launch a sort of retro regional macro lager producer from the ground up. I've seen lots of little breweries put out "American lagers" of one sort or a other and while many were tasty enough none of them stuck around and I struggle to see how the pricing those little brands seem to require could ever be overcome by branding when the beers are (by design) in the same vein as all the macro brewers.

Appreciate you adding some thoughts here and glad to see your still producing interesting writing on the beer business.

 

I've said it more that a few times.
Notch is killing lagers. All types from different parts of the world. Really interesting. And a nice story to follow.

 

Agreed. Dortmunder and Eddie Fitz are their best beers and have been for thirty years. I can remember drinking the lager under its original name: The Heisman. He of the football trophy name was born in Ohio City where the brewery is located.

 

It's the most popular beer style in the country by far, so it represents the biggest opportunity (and challenge) for craft brewers to disrupt with better quality. Demand growth for craft beer is hitting a tough time right now, consistent with many things in this economy. I'm making up an example, but if you can convince a fraction of a percent of say Bud Light drinkers in your local area to support your better lager, say 1 in every 250, you could triple the size of your craft brewery creating the breathing room financially to brew more niche styles that don't have an immediate audience, but with long term patience, education, and hand selling, could. become more of a thing. In other words, craft brewers are looking for a new way to "keep the lights on". But what do I know...

 

But you really do need to compete with their price point; simple branding won't get those crossover drinkers.

Otherwise you're going after the Stella, Corona, etc. drinkers. And that dynamic you described has already happened- it was Sam Adams' basic strategy in the 80s, and did pretty much succeed in getting us where we are now.