Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #33 - General Water Profile

I don't modify my water so went with low and low.

 

Burton's or no Burton's

 

In the book Water 50-100 ppm Chloride and 100-200 ppm Sulfate are recommended, so I have voted for Medium and High. Cheers!

 

I am abstaining from this poll simply because I don't know enough about water profiles yet or how that knowledge should be applied to an ESB to have an educated opinion.

 

Ditto / Cheers

 

High, Medium for me this time, I usually go typically higher sulphate than chloride but want to swap for this one

 

As I see it, perfection requires Medium and High. Otherwise this will be far from a Fuller's inspired brew. Some care, some don't. I kind of care but I'm also not wearing any pants.

 

[QUOTE="VikeMan, post: 5418469, member: 348498
In this poll, consider "Low" to mean less than 75 ppm, "Medium" to mean 75 ppm - 125 ppm, and "High" to mean greater than 125 ppm.
[/QUOTE]

Bru'nWater says:
Yellow Malty 55 sulfate, 70 chloride
Yellow Balanced 75 sulfate, 60 chloride
Yellow Bitter 105 sulfate, 45 chloride
Amber Malty 55 sulfate 65 chloride
Amber Balanced 75 sulfate 63 chloride
Amber Bitter 110 Sulfate, 50 Chloride
(all numbers in ppm, which = mg/L)

Brun and others have warned on several occasions to not treat your water according to city water profiles unless you know that the brewers do not treat their water. I do not know what Fullers does and a quick search on the internet found nothing definitive. People seem to want to use Burton water for it because Fullers, in London, apparently would set out to emulate Burton's water? I would stick with one of the above, none of which venture into Vikeman's "high" range. I'm voting medium sulfate and low chloride for a bitter profile.

 

Any particular reason for the high chloride?

 

Just want to try it in one of my beers. Higher mineralisation works well for my tastes in british beers, but I tend to always have more sulphate. And this also reminded me of a thread on a british brewing forum where someone tested bottled Tim Taylor Landlord on a hunch that it was chloride forward over sulphate and he worked out that after accounting from the contribution from the malt it was, something like 130ppm chloride to 100 ppm sulphate in the brewing liquor

 

The brunwater profiles seem a bit low all round imo but I know he's posted elsewhere saying that is his preference which is fine of course

For comparison here's Graham Wheelers suggested starting points

Dry Pale Ale - 330so4 165CL
sweet pale ale - 230so4 152cl
bitter - 273so4 137cl
general purpose - 177so4 89cl

John Keeling has mentioned before they burtonise their water at fullers, but I've no idea to what extent. someone could try emailing him or georgina young at fullers if they are desperate to know

 

An interesting read - (I went Low Cl/Med S)

From BYO:

"Much has been written about the high sulfate water of Burton-upon-Trent being a key element in brewing bitters. It is true that water with high sulfate content enhances the sharp, bitter aspect of hops. However, this is very easily overdone, which results in a chalky, metallic, or harsh character. Brewers today brew good bitter with a wide range of water types. In most cases, any water is well suited as is unless it is on the soft end of the spectrum. If you have soft water, add some gypsum or Burton salts, but start low, targeting half the amount of sulfate typical of Burton water. Use no more than 1 teaspoon of Burton salts per 5 gallons (19 L) or no more than 3 grams (0.1 oz.) of gypsum per gallon (3.8 L). It is always better to add less than more. While this won't exactly mimic the water of Burton-upon-Trent, it is more than enough to accentuate the hop bitterness. You can add your mineral salts to the mash water or, if you're extract brewing, you can add the mineral salts to your water before you heat it. For all other water types, first try brewing this style without any additional mineral salts."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong- shouldn't "low chloride, medium sulfate" roughly have the same affect as "medium chloride, high sulfate"? Isn't it the ratio of the two that is important? Not necessarily the amount.

 

I disagree very much. Let's not turn this into a ratio argument.

P.S. I might be an idiot, but I *am* also a chemical engineer.

 

For sure, two parts X to one part Y will lead you to different places if the total dissolved solids between two waters are vastly different. But I wonder if the ratio is useful concept within a narrower range of tds (and what that range might look like). Any ideas?

 

yeah both matter, sulphate and chloride alter your perception of the beer in different ways and therefor your perception of the flavour/enjoyment of that beer. It's all a bit subjective and esotoric really and one of the last things most homebrewers should be bothering about But, it is worth pursuing as an all grain brewer imo.

 

Since we are talking about flavor impacts (as opposed to mash effects), I think it could be worth pursuing for extract brewers, too. Of course, they wouldn't know the salt content of the extract, so may need to make a few assumptions and proceed via trial and error, but my guess is that a dedicated extract brewer might be able to consistently refine salt additions to achieve a flavor impact.

 

One study indicates that the level of minerals is not nearly as important as the Cl / SO4 ratio.