Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #7 - Crystal Malt Runoff

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 13, 2017.

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Which Crystal Malt will be #1, and thus definitely IN?

Poll closed Mar 15, 2017.
  1. English Crystal Malt (~55L)

    71.1%
  2. English Dark Crystal (~80L)

    28.9%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    -> Poll #6 <- ended in a tie for the top Crystal Malt choice (i.e. the one that will be automatically in). Although the top two choices each got votes from more than 50% of respondents, the was not enough overlap in voters to put them both in automatically (i.e. there were less than 50% voting for both of them together, in context).

    This poll will decide whether English Crystal Malt (~55L) or English Dark Crystal (~80L) is IN, with the loser going on to compete with/against English Medium Crystal (~45L) in a combination poll to see which C-Malt(s) (if any) joins the top C-Malt in the recipe (because 45L also got votes from more than 30%).

    Simple plurality takes this one. Another tie would put them both in.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, base malt already selected, and fermentables still possible, as well as any possible yeast strain selection that might be kicking around in your head.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect ESB Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 5.4%
    OG: 1.053
    FG: 1.012 (77.4% Apparent Attenuation)
    Grain Bill:
    ---Maris Otter
    ---English Crystal Malt (~55L) possibly in, English Dark Crystal (~80L) possibly in, English Medium Crystal (~45L) possibly in
    ---Sugar, Sugar Products, and/or Honey possibly in (TBD, future poll)
    ---Munich and/or Vienna possibly in (TBD, future poll)
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    First one in
     
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I voted for 55 and 80, but if it had to be just one, 55.
     
  4. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Why not both?
     
  5. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I feel more like 55 for this type of beer. Perhaps a smidgen of 80, but not a lot.
     
  6. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I think 2 crystals are in order. I really want the medium crystal (55). Then we can do a runoff of light vs dark (45 and 80).
     
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    It can be both, but first we decide which one must be in. In my own recipe forumulating, I'd consider about 0.5 lbs 55L and 0.125- 025 lbs 80L. Any more than that and I'm dialing 911 for the Crystal Police.
     
    Supergenious and JackHorzempa like this.
  8. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Nobody expects the Crystal Police!
     
    JackHorzempa and corbmoster like this.
  9. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Any more than that would be like buying a one-way ticket to Crystal City.
     
  10. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I think something like 80 and 45 would be better than something like 55 and 45, so vote for 80 and then vote accordingly on the next poll.

    Voting for 55 here is setting us up for just 55 because no one will want 55 and 45 and most are going to be afraid of the crystal police and are going to shy away from 80 and 55 together.

    Vote 80 here
     
  11. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I voted 55 here and will vote for 80 on the next poll. Since I can't get 45 I'd be using 55 anyway.
     
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Why does 55+80 invoke fear of the dreaded Crystal Police? And what doesn't 80+50 have the same effect? And if it is going to be just one, why isn't 55 the best one?
     
    crcostel likes this.
  13. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't know why people think the way they do, but I'm willing to bet if this poll goes with 55, then none of the others will get picked. I think that would be a mistake. A couple other people have said that they would like to use a couple different crystal malts in a beer like this, I agree.

    55 might be the best if just using one crystal malt, but to be clear, I don't want just one crystal malt. I think the best beer would have a couple different crystal malts.

    Maybe this ends up being a place for a buyer's remorse poll after we see all the other polls.
     
    corbmoster likes this.
  14. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I don't think anyone has said they prefer just 1 crystal. And Monty Python aside, I'm not afraid of the crystal crew.
     
  15. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Exactly. Nobody is going to vote both 45 and 55, (can you really taste a difference?). I like the idea of two crystal malts though. So that means 80L is in, then we decide between 45 and 55.
     
  16. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I'm not the most experienced guy in this, but I don't think it's possible to
    get the appropriate balance between kilned malt bitterness and contribution to FG with just one crystal. And if one tried to do it with one kilned/crystal malt and a syrup, it seems like the malt would need to be 80, which is my vote.
     
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't believe I have ever heard of kilned malt bitterness. I'm not saying it isn't a thing. Probably the same as I mean when I say I think a touch of C80 adds some complexity to C55. But we'll be using all Maris otter, and we'll be voting on invert sugar. I think this beer will have a good chance at being quite delicious even if we have just C55.
     
  18. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    If you want to go 1 crystal only, 80 is the one to do. Since invert has no color, we would have to use a lot of 55 crystal just to get within color range.

    I prefer 2 crystals (55 and 80) for color and flavor and because I doubt I'm going to want to make a batch of invert sugar anyway.
     
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Well...
    [​IMG]

    This was about halfway through the Invert process (for an Invert "#2" syrup).

    This post is in no way an endorsement or suggestion for any particular ingredients for this recipe. I'm only posting it because I'm assuming not a ton of BAs have made their own Invert syrups.
     
    #19 VikeMan, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
    Applecrew135 likes this.
  20. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Like Vikeman posted, invert sugar definitely has color, how much color depends on how long you cook it. And it definitely adds some flavor as well.
     
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