Averagely Perfect Kölsch - Poll #12 - Mash Length

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, May 9, 2020.

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What should the recommended mash length be?

Poll closed May 11, 2020.
  1. 30 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 45 minutes

    11.1%
  3. 60 minutes

    55.6%
  4. 75 minutes

    33.3%
  5. 90 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other (write it in)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Poll #11 <- determined that the recommended mash temperature will be 149F.

    This poll will determine recommended Mash Length. This will be "recommended" because YMMV when it comes to making a wort with the attenuability needed to hit this recipe's numbers, so some may need different mash parameters. That said, the recommended number will be at least a starting place for less experienced brewers.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of the parameters needed to hit apparent attenuation of ~82% with the grain bill, yeast strain, and recommended mash temperature already selected.

    When this poll is done, I will look at the data a few different ways to determine the central tendency. It may or may not be as simple as a plurality would indicate. There may or may not be a runoff. It depends on the data. Want a mash length not listed? Write it in. Pollster reserves the right to cast (or not) tie-breaking votes.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via PM. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect Kölsch Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 4.8%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.008
    Recommended Mash Temp: 159F
    Yeast: Wyeast 2565 Kölsch

    Grain Bill:
    - German Pilsner Malt (90%)
    - Wheat Malt (10%)
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    As I type this message there are three votes for a 60 minute mash. I would 'remind' folks that in order to obtain a highly fermentable wort a longer mash duration is beneficial.

    But maybe folks simply don't care too much if they achieve AA = 82%?:confused:

    Or perhaps they have the ability to achieve this high attenuation level in 60 minutes.:thinking_face:

    Cheers!

    P.S. And the Recommended Mash Temp is 149F vs. the 159F stated in the OP.
     
    #2 JackHorzempa, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Naugled likes this.
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I have skepticism that it matters. Will it finish higher if I stop the mash at 60 minutes? If so, will it be so much higher that I will be able to perceive something different about the beer? And will that something different be perceived as bad?
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Studies indicate that you will achieve a higher FG value for a 60 minute mash vs. a longer mash.
    I really do not know your palate's ability so...?
    Do you enjoy a Kolsch beer that has a dry finish? If so they achieving a lower FG value would be a good thing.

    Cheers!
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Rare pollster interjection here, prompted by the discussion... in this poll, people really shouldn't be voting for the mash length they think will produce a beer with an FG/attenuation they think they'll like. Grain Bill, Yeast Strain, OG, FG, and Attenuation have already been determined. This poll is more like "Given the recipe so far, what mash length is most likely to produce ~82% apparent attenuation?"

    (As the pollster, I have no opinion on what that mash length is.)
     
  6. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Initiate (111) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    One of them doesn't match...
     
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Brewkaiser data show a very marginal change in attenuation between 60 and 75 minutes. It looks like it might amount to 1% or less. This is a source for my skepticism. If you can show data that suggests this is a slam-dunk and not the marginal effect that these data show, I will follow Vikeman's advice and reconsider my position, ignoring any weak personal preferences that are based on my inferior palate. As it is, my opinion is that the we would see a marginal impact for a marginal increase in effort, and I don't think we should bother.
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    And at NHC 2012 Greg Doss Wyeast Laboratories Inc.) gave a presentation entitled “Exploring Attenuation” and the results of his Laboratory study was that attenuation increased by 2.72% from 60 minutes to 75 minutes.

    My homebrewing practice is consistent in this regard.

    Entirely your choice here.

    Cheers!
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    That sounds reasonable. If you hit 82% attenuation on this Kolsch using 75 minutes and I hit 79.3% attenuation using 60 minutes, you would have a beer that dropped from 1.045 to 1.008 and I would have a beer that dropped from 1.045 to 1.0092. To me, that is small stuff to sweat over.

    The data we have examined really only show us that we can generalize that attenuation will be higher with the longer mash; it doesn't help us specify what the attenuation actually will be. You have more experience with this yeast than I do. Does 75 minutes at 149 equate to 82% attenuation?
     
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I actually achieve more attenuation: 83%. This is from my most recent batch of Kolsch where I mashed 100% Pilsner Malt at 149 F for 75 minutes and used (once again) Wyeast 2565.

    This is important to me since for my palate I greatly enjoy a Kolsch that has drinkability (i.e., a dry finish to it).

    Perhaps a 60 minute mash is what you desire?

    Cheers!
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Mean: 63
    Median: 60
    Mode: 60

    Calling this one for 60 minutes.