Averagely Perfect Project #8 - Pre-Poll

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Apr 14, 2020.

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Select the style for the next Averagely Perfect Project

Poll closed Apr 17, 2020.
  1. Hefeweizen

    3.4%
  2. Barleywine

    30.5%
  3. Munich Helles

    5.1%
  4. Baltic Porter

    3.4%
  5. Belgian Pale Ale

    10.2%
  6. Pastry Stout

    3.4%
  7. Belgian Dark Strong Ale

    6.8%
  8. Kolsch

    32.2%
  9. Dark Mild

    1.7%
  10. American Wheat

    3.4%
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Based on the 10 most popular styles mentioned in this thread...
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-project-8-suggestions.637529/

    ...this poll will determine the style to be built in the 8th Averagely Perfect crowd sourced recipe project. Basically, everyone who posted a preference(s) in that thread got one vote. I split that one vote evenly among the styles mentioned by that poster.

    The style that gets the most votes (plurality) wins. If you see your choice doesn't have a shot, but would prefer a different style from the leader(s), feel free to jump ship. The poll will be open for 3 days.

    Here we go.
     
  2. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,369) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Going with barleywine. Outside of Bigfoot (American) and a couple of imports (English), I don't really see much of it anymore, but it's a great style with a lot of room for interpretation.
     
    #2 MrOH, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
    pweis909 likes this.
  3. Dave_S

    Dave_S Initiate (69) May 18, 2017 England

    There's a whole load there that I could go with. Picked American Wheat but could easily go for Dark Mild, Belgian Pale or Belgian Dark Strong Ale, and might well change later.

    One thing I would suggest is that people don't just think "is this a style that I want to brew" but also "is this a style that will be interesting to talk about". A few of the frontrunners here feel like you could more-or-less predict what the end result will look like from the word go, which might make the process feel a bit less involving...
     
    wspscott likes this.
  4. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Go Barleywine!
     
    MrOH likes this.
  5. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Initiate (180) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    I went Kolsch. One I’ve never brewed one. Two is I just want a nice summer beer to drink when I mow.
     
  6. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Initiate (111) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I went Barleywine. I feel it can be complex enough for this. I get that we are going into summer and people want lighter beers for that, but my Hefe has three malts and I am told I am pushing it... I feel the same with Kolsch/Helles?American Wheat. I know more can be added, but someone would have to do some serious convincing. Leaving my Baltic in the dust, because I am thinking of all the Barleywines I have had in the last couple years and wondering why I haven't made one yet.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  7. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Devotee (488) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont

    belgian dark, or bust! of course barleywines good too
     
    JSullivan likes this.
  8. Scope4Beer

    Scope4Beer Initiate (139) Sep 28, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I’ve been thinking of brewing a Belgian dark myself again sometime soon, so I vote for that
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  9. riptorn

    riptorn Disciple (389) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Kölsch style; crisp, clean, refreshing.
     
    skleice likes this.
  10. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Kolsch
     
    skleice likes this.
  11. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (320) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I went kolsh even though I said hefe in the other thread as I hadn’t thought about that style.
     
    skleice likes this.
  12. Chumley22

    Chumley22 Initiate (80) Sep 28, 2013 Minnesota

    I went Barleywine as well- prefer an English style. This is the time of year to brew one, it will be just about right in 6-7 months!
     
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  13. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Really hoping East Coast Yeast drops some Homebrew quantities of their Kolsch yeast in the near future. I guess It’s the old Brewtek CL-450 which from what I’ve heard is phenomenal.

    Kolsch is gonna be all about process, not necessarily ingredients.
     
    OddNotion likes this.
  14. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Love Kolsch, but it's a simple style. Barleywine, with it's depth of malt, potential for hoppy bitterness and aromatics, and American or English leanings, lends itself better to the Averagely Perfect treatment
     
  15. OddNotion

    OddNotion Zealot (584) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey

    Went with Barleywine, though slightly biased there. I think it can be as simple or complex as we would like. There is a lot of good conversation that can be had around this style when crowd-sourcing a recipe. I also rarely brew anything over 6% anymore so its a good chance to get something bigger on tap.
     
  16. Supergenious

    Supergenious Disciple (366) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    For those voting Kolsch or Hefeweizen could you tell us why? Sure, they are damn fine beers, but I don’t see many options for interesting AP discussions. I think most people here could predict the final recipe/ process right now.
    I voted Belgian Pale, very under rated style in my opinion. I have no problem jumping ship to Barleywine though.
    Also, a Belgian dark strong is just a Dubbel with more malt, and we already did one of those.
     
    209Hill and utahbeerdude like this.
  17. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (320) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    My guess is that most of us are bored and summer is here and we want to drink something easy when the warm weather hits.
     
  18. Supergenious

    Supergenious Disciple (366) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Fair enough. Keep in mind the last AP beer took about 3 months to finish voting. So if we land on Kolsch it gets brewed around July and then lager for at least a month.
     
    Jasonja1474, MrOH and Prep8611 like this.
  19. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Devotee (488) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont

    changed my vote to barley wine, bring on the octain
     
    Granitebeard, Naugled and Jasonja1474 like this.
  20. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Initiate (180) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    Well timing wise I have to buy my ingredients today so I’m gonna go ahead and buy Kolsch stuff because I want a mowing beer. If anyone has a tried and true recipe they absolutely love shoot me a link I’d appreciate it. Cheers
     
  21. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I've brewed the Kolsch recipe in Brewing Classic Styles a few times, it's a solid recipe and has always come out great. I'd start with that one. I'm sure you can find it online in a forum somewhere with a quick google search.

    And then switch your vote to Barleywine. ;-)
     
    GormBrewhouse, OddNotion and MrOH like this.
  22. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    100% weyermann pils
    Hallertau mittelfruh hops to maybe 20 ibus.
    The wyeast Kolsch strain.
    Mash temp 152
    Fermentation temp 60
    Lager
    Drink

    there may be some details to quibble over, but this will make a fine example
     
  23. scottakelly

    scottakelly Zealot (502) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I could see some interesting arguments regarding kolsch or hefeweizen in regards to process. Ingredients election will be argued on the margins, but I could see a wide range of opinions when it comes to mash and fermentation procedures
     
    GormBrewhouse and JackHorzempa like this.
  24. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Barley Wine

    Maris Otter/C45
    100% EKG
    Boil for 4 hours
    1028
    Leave for months

    there might be details to quibble over but that’ll make a fine example
     
  25. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Hey you Dark Mild, Pastry Stout and American Wheat voters, you can still brew those beers and then use the yeast cake for a Barleywine. You will have good yeast management and beer for sooner and later.

    This is a good horse race so far :-)
     
    GormBrewhouse, OddNotion and MrOH like this.
  26. riptorn

    riptorn Disciple (389) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    True enough that the Kolsch might not generate as much discussion as most of the other options, especially considering its SMASHish ingredients.
    There have been comments about variables in process. @scottakelly , @wasatchback (or anyone else), can y’all shed some light on some of those variables and how they would add to the discussion?

    It’s doubtful I’ll change from Kolsch to Barleywine, but I could be convinced to flip to one of the other lighter (in both color and ABV) choices, especially the Belgian Pale if there is substantial movement in that direction. (Belgian could make for some interesting back and forth on hops)

    ETA:
    Agreed, and we're not even 1/3 way through the first (pre)poll.
     
    #26 riptorn, Apr 15, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  27. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    FWIW, my recipe post was not intended to support my argument for barley wine and I appreciate the irony that, to some degree, it undermines my position. My intention was only to provide a recipe In case it was helpful to the person who was shopping for Kolsch ingredients

    Your barley wine recipe looks good, but I wouldn’t be able to resist the lure of specialty ingredients and a debate over which of the myriad ale yeast should be used, With Kolsch, I am somewhat narrow-minded.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  28. Dave_S

    Dave_S Initiate (69) May 18, 2017 England

    Also, you are allowed to brew beers that aren't part of an AP project!

    Shifted to Belgian Pale in the hopes of a mass migration, but might shift again to Barleywine if that doesn't happen.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  29. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Initiate (180) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    I’m gonna hold solid on the Kolsch vote. Just purchased
    Avangard German Pilsner #9lbs
    Briess Vienna malt 4oz
    1oz Hersbrucker hops for 0min addition
    1oz Spalt select hops for 60min addition
    And WLP830 yeast from White labs
    These were purchased from my local HBS so it’s what they had on hand
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  30. scottakelly

    scottakelly Zealot (502) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    For hefeweizen I could see the main discussion coming down to mash procedure, but also some discussion regarding fermentation procedure. Personally, I am a big fan of a step mash being performed for a hefeweizen. Regarding kolsch, I could see some discussion regarding mash procedure, but would imagine the main arguments being over fermentation and lagering.
     
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  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Those two styles are excellent styles for summertime drinking.

    I do enjoy sipping a Barleywine in front of the fireplace on a cold February evening.

    I am thinking summertime drinking right now.

    Cheers!
     
    Jasonja1474 and GormBrewhouse like this.
  32. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Kolsch in indeed a 'simple' recipe from an ingredient selection (although there could be some debate as to whether to include some wheat in the grain bill). There could be a spirited discussion about yeast selection (should we use the new Kolsch yeast out now from Lallemand for example?).

    As @scottakelly alluded to there are a number of process decisions in producing a high quality Kolsch.

    One of these is mashing:
    • Step mash vs. single temperature Infusion Mash?
    • If single temperature infusion mash - what temperature to select, how long to mash?
    There is also a need to discuss which temperature to select for fermentation. Is a very 'clean' Kolsch desired or do we want some notable esters (e.g., white wine type flavors) to be developed.

    And has been mentioned whether to lager or not lager. If lagering, what temp/duration?

    There could also be a robust discussion concerning clarification aids especially if Wyeast 2565 is selected for the yeast.

    And then there is the aspect of brewing water. How 'minerally' do we want to go here to replicate the brewing water of the Cologne breweries?

    There is likely other aspects worthy of discussion/consideration beyond the above.

    Brewing a high quality Kolsch is no simple matter.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Another discussion/debate could be hopping schedule: Do we just add bittering hops or should we add some flavor hops as well? I personally choose to just add bittering hops since I want the bready Pilsner malt & yeast derived ester flavors to shine in this style of beer.
     
  33. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,369) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Kolsch or Hefeweizen is going to end up in a discussion of mash steps and whether or not to decoct. And as @JackHorzempa stated, water profile. For Kolsch, there's also lagering. That's outside of most of our capibilities.

    As @Supergenious pointed out, by the time we're finished with all the voting and folks actually find the time to brew this, it'd be past when you'd want a lawnmower beer. But perfect timing for brewing a barleywine and letting it age a bit until late winter/early spring.

    Also, @HB42 hefeweizen recipe is gold. I miss that dude.
     
  34. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    As homebrewers we get to select whether to lager or not. Before I constructed my lagering chamber I brewed a number of batches of Kolsch and I was quite happy drinking those beers.

    Cheers!
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  35. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Me too, that's why you have to be thinking about and brewing them now. So you'll have some ready to enjoy all winter.
    This is like Aesop's age old fable The Grasshopper and the Ant. (at least the planning part is)
     
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  36. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Yup, drink now or drink later.

    Of course if a person was not too picky about aging their Barleywine they could choose to brew a summertime beer (e.g., Kolsch) now for summertime enjoyment and then in September brew their Barleywine for consumption in February 2021.

    A Twofer!

    I am guessing she would agree with me here:

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    I say we resist the urge to perpetuate the typical Homebrew pitfall of choosing a style and concocting a grain bill that’s complicated thinking that 2% of this and 4% of that is really gonna make a difference. Process trumps recipe every time.
     
    #37 wasatchback, Apr 15, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  38. deadwolfbones

    deadwolfbones Initiate (158) Jun 21, 2014 Oregon

    Kolsch for me. 'tis the season.

    Failing that, Helles.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  39. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Zealot (535) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    Me as well, but am not following to barleywine.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  40. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Initiate (180) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    The home brew store did not have the hops I wanted to use so I went with these for all additions. Hope they bitter it enough.[​IMG]