Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #10 - Basic Grains

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jan 17, 2015.

?

Select ONE OR MORE Grains

Poll closed Jan 19, 2015.
  1. Pilsner Malt, 2-Row Brewer's Malt and/or Pale Ale Malt

    98.2%
  2. Munich and/or Vienna

    39.3%
  3. Unmalted Spelt

    5.4%
  4. Unmalted Oats

    41.1%
  5. Aromatic

    5.4%
  6. Victory and/or Biscuit

    3.6%
  7. Unmalted Wheat and/or Rye

    44.6%
  8. Rye Malt and/or Wheat Malt

    42.9%
  9. Roasted Malts

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Brown Malt

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    The previous poll (#9) determined that Unmalted Grains will be considered for the grain bill, but there will be no non-grain fermentables.

    Now we'll start selecting the grains. Pour yourself a beer...this may take a while.

    You can select more than one choice. The #1 overall choice will be automatically in. Beyond that, any other choices that get votes from at least 30% of respondents will advance to a future poll to determine exact combinations in/out. If less than 3 (beyond the top pick) get votes from at least 30% of respondents, three will advance to the combinations poll. There will also be polls to select specific varieties of grains that get in. Want something that's not listed? Write it in.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV, Final Gravity, and Yeast Strains already selected.

    This poll will be open for 36 hours.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    ABV: 5.7%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.002
    Yeast: WLP565/Wyeast 3724, followed by WLP644 in primary, sometime before attenuation is complete (exact timing TBD).
    No Non-Grain Adjuncts
     
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    First one in! Pils, Vienna, unmalted wheat.
     
  3. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Pilsner malt and flaked wheat sound good to me.
     
  4. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    pils and wheat malt for me.
     
    PortLargo and ChrisMyhre like this.
  5. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Pilsner or pale ale. If it was a fall beer I would consider a tiny, and I mean tiny, bit of Brown malt along with some Munich.
     
  6. Supergenious

    Supergenious Disciple (367) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    I'm a big fan of a little rye in my saison.
     
  7. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Not going to vote yet, because I have some questions for the experts.

    I have never used unmalted wheat or rye, but I have used the malted version of both. Why would you prefer one vs. the other?

    How about a little caramel malt or Special B? JK :wink:
     
  8. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    Pils, Vienna, Malted Wheat, and if needed for brett.. flaked oats/wheat.
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  9. OddNotion

    OddNotion Zealot (585) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey

    Pils, wheat/rye, oats for me!
     
  10. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    The unmalted will give a slightly more rustic character, but the big difference is body. During the malting process the proteins in the grain are broken down (some, but not all). For Flaked the proteins are all left in tact and the process of heat rolling causes the starches to gelatinize making them convertable in a single infusion mash.
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Pilsner malt and something unmalted. I voted for all the unmalted, but in reality, I'd only pick one. For the record, unmalted barley is not in the poll. I figure it might have been used in historical farmhouse ales, but what do I know?
     
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    So I get the difference between malted and unmalted as far as starches being converted, and that rolled/flaked grains are pregelatinized so you don't need a cereal mash. I guess I am looking for flavor differences/preferences from people who have tried both types. There are lots of reports online that rye malt is "stronger" vs flaked rye or something similar. But, I am curious why someone would prefer a malted vs. unmalted grain for THIS beer that we are building.

    For example, I drank a bunch of saison today that was Weyerman Pils and Weyerman Rye Malt and it was pretty good, except for the Belle Saison part :slight_smile: Why would this beer have been better with unmalted rye instead?

    Right now, I am leaning towards Pils, a touch of Weyerman Munich (6L) and Rye malt, but I am happy to be talked into somthing completely different.

    Who is voting for oats? And why?
     
  13. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    Oats woild be extra dextrins for the brett to munch on.
     
    wspscott likes this.
  14. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    @wspscott it is proteins that keep a better sense of body, even with a super low FG. Malting breaks down proteins in the grains, flaking doesn't, so flaked grains retain the body proteins where malted has less. Low OG, super low FG, and Brett could lead to thin body, the proteins in flaked will help with this.
     
    utahbeerdude and wspscott like this.
  15. Lukass

    Lukass Meyvn (1,025) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio

    I chose pils, as well as rye and wheat malt
     
  16. LakesideBrewing

    LakesideBrewing Initiate (88) Dec 1, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I chose pils, oats, wheat/rye, and unmalted wheat/rye, even though I do not want any rye in a saison. I'm assuming there will be another poll about grain, or was there a reason that wheat and rye were grouped together?
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    There's no need to assume.

     
  18. BrewGator

    BrewGator Initiate (75) Dec 17, 2009 North Carolina

    IN MY EXPERIENCE, the difference between the flavor of flaked rye and malted rye isn't huge. They both taste like rye, after all. However, rye malt tends to give a little more of a malty, slightly sweet flavor, similar to what you get in a pale ale or Munich malt. Flaked rye has a drier, slightly sharper flavor, without being outright sharp.

    Another way of looking at it is that rye malt gives a rounder rye flavor, while flaked gives a brighter crisper rye flavor. I prefer the crisper flavor and mouthfeel boost of flaked rye in the context of this beer, but I don't think rye malt would be out of place either.
     
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,819) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    Pils, wheat and sauer malt make up all my saisons. This was a no brainer.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    And the answer is:
    Pilsner Malt, 2-Row Brewer's Malt and/or Pale Ale Malt IN (exact variety(s) TBD, next poll)
    Unmalted Wheat and/or Rye (potentially in, later polls)
    Rye Malt and/or Wheat Malt (potentially in, later polls)
    Unmalted Oats (potentially in, later poll)
    Munich and/or Vienna malt (potentially in, later polls)
     
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