Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #23 - Mash Type

Sheer laziness. Single infusion, no mashout.

 

So I am clear on terminology...

Sacc rest plus mashout would be something like 150 for 60 mins then sparge to get the mash up to 168, right.

While protein rest, sacc rest plus mashout would be something like 130 to 150 to 168, right?

Does anyone not do a mashout as I understand it (i.e. sparge water or similar to raise the mash to 165-170)? BIAB maybe?

In the sidebar, there was a discussion about protein rests. I have never done one before, what would be the benefits for this beer of doing a protein rest? I personally don't care about clarity.

 

A large percentage of unmodified malts would add long chain proteins that likely will produce haze. A protein rest reduces the long chains to medium chains; improves clarity and head stability. Palmer says usually not needed if unmodified malts are <25% which we are just below. Here's his take on the subject. More of the science of step mashing from BYO here.

I give my witbiers a protein rest, they usually have 20 - 25% flaked wheat and have been pleased. Like you I favor mash-outs, but others skip this step. My equipment allows for a three temperature steps (if I get up early enough) so it's not unusual for me to go full court press.

 

Sacch rest plus mashout since I started batch sparging, but I have no complaints doing sacch rest only too. I'll be happy with either one.

 

So, what would a protein rest lead to in a beer with "brett"? Suppose we were using 645 instead of 644, would a protein rest be good or bad by what ever definitions of good/bad you prefer?

 

I chose single infusion with no mash out.
Single infusion because I think that is all you need for this style and grain bill.
No mash out because I want the most fermentable wort possible. The purpose of a mash out is to halt enzyme activity. If you don't mash out then the enzyme activity will continue through sparge and collection. Plus with some set ups and processes you risk adding some astringency if your water is too hot.

 

Protein rest is detrimental. Mashout is usually worthless, but especially for saison where you want a little added dryness. Just do a single infusion and be done.

 

I batch sparge, usually only adding a small amount of sparge water to first runoff. It likely does not get heated to mash out temps. The second runnings would be closer .

I also don't worry about clarity much. It's lovely when you get it, desirable when your competing, and completely lacking in importance to my taste buds.

 

Whats happens if this ends up in a tie? We can't just split it down the middle.

 

Do what's right. Skip the protein rest. Have ya'll experimented with protein rests? If you haven't, then you don't know why you're doing one and should skip it. Protein rest results in a clearer beer, but in my experience this comes at the expense of thinner more watery body and poor head retention. If you don't want any weird side effects, then skip it.

 

To suggest that because a person hasn't experimented with a concept/activity, they shouldn't do it is a little short sided. Don't get me wrong, I think I understand why you are saying that, but in home brewing context, it seems like that would limit the hobby. I understand things about brewing that I've never experimented with also. I've never experimented with brewing on a $3000 full blown system and would not know much about it, and if given the opportunity, I would not "skip it".

 

I'll switch my vote to help ensure we don't end up in a tie, I have no strong feelings about doing/not doing a mashout.

 

I've never done a step mash at 85 minutes at 141 F, 62 minutes at 143 F, 47 minutes at 144 F, 3 minutes at 147 F, and 55 minutes at 155 F, but I know enough to recognize that it's needlessly adding extra steps, and for the purposes of putting out an averagely perfect recipe, if I have never tried such a mash schedule then I'm not going to recommend it. Now, if someone wants to try this on their own and not adhere to the averagely perfect recipe, by all means, I applaud those who wish to experiment. If you want to run the experiment on a $3000 full blow system, by all means please do it. But for the express purposes of recommending to everyone that they do these things, I'm going to stick with just a single infusion, and especially so considering that in my experience, the protein rest doesn't buy you anything for a saison and is generally detrimental.

 

I didn't necessarily disagree with your reasons. It's just that your statement is so absolute.

 

I'm confused. Does "single infusion (saccherification rest)" mean taking first runnings, only? That can't be what you mean....

 

Nope. It means holding a certain temp for the entirety of the mash.

 

My apologies. Chalk it up to a personality disorder.

 

Ok, I am confused that there is such strong support for sacc rest, no mash out. You all are just sparging with ~150 degree water? If you are heating sparge water, why not heat it a little more (mash out temps)? Or are you mashing with your full volume of water like BIAB?