Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #25 - Mash Length

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Feb 14, 2015.

?

Choose a Mash Length

Poll closed Feb 16, 2015.
  1. 30 minutes

    4.8%
  2. 40 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 50 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 60 minutes

    57.1%
  5. 70 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 80 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 90 minutes

    26.2%
  8. 100 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 110 minutes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 120 minutes

    11.9%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    The previous poll (#24) determined that the mash temperature will be 150F.

    This poll (#25) will determine the recommended mash length. If you want a mash length not listed, write it in. (After mash length is determined, we'll be on to boil length, and then hops.)

    When this poll is done, I will look at the data a few different ways to determine the central tendency. It may or may not be as simple as a plurality would indicate. There may or may not be a runoff. It all depends on the data. Ultimately, the selected time will be rounded to the nearest 5 minutes.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the recipe so far. Design the best beer you can, given what's already been decided. Resist the urge to try to steer the recipe back toward a beer that might be impossible. Also, I strongly suspect many folks have not made a beer quite like this recipe (so far) before, so please discuss the options at length.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Batch Size: 5 Gallons
    ABV: 5.7%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.002
    Mash Recommendation: Single Infusion @ 150F, no Mashout, length TBD
    Assumed Mash Efficiency: 70%

    Grain Bill:
    Belgian Pilsner Malt (68%)
    Flaked Wheat (17%)
    Vienna malt (15%)


    Yeasts:
    WLP565/Wyeast 3724 at beginning of fermentation
    WLP644, 0.5 Liter Starter Recommended, added to primary when beer/wort reaches gravity of 1.033
     
  2. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (484) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    Not directly related to Mash Temp, but did some experimenting with how Gravity drops initially. Currently fermenting a pale ale with an OG of 1.045 (really); at just under 48 hours of pitching I took a hydrometer reading (the things I do for Science). Here's the result:

    [​IMG]

    Adjusted for temp, Gravity is 1.036 . . . I had a fairly long lag time (~10 hours), so estimate this was about 36 hours after Mr Yeast put themselves in gear. Ferm temp was 66, higher temps should shorten the time to reach our 1.033 target.

    For VikeMan; here's your first data point for when you add a tab to BrewCipher showing Gravity versus "time in primary" as correlated by Yeast type.
     
    jlordi12 likes this.
  3. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (454) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    Very kind. I'm somewhat surprised also. What yeast?
     
  4. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (484) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    I'm still surprised I did that . . . co-pitch of 3944 & Conan.

    [​IMG]
    My guess is not quite to high krausen.
     
    ChrisMyhre and jlordi12 like this.
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    90. I find it to work out better in most of my beers that I want dry. Don't ask why. Habit, maybe.
     
  6. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    @VikeMan If you're looking for that type of data, use data that is posted by those that use The Beer Bug. I don't use it personally, but all of the fermentation data is collected and posted. It will give you a place to start.

    https://www.thebeerbug.com/community/
     
  7. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (393) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Long and low. 90 minutes.
     
    FATC1TY likes this.
  8. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Aspirant (246) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I do 90 no matter what. It's part of my routine so I can do other things on brew day. I plan on being faithful to the final recipe but honestly I'll mash 90 no matter what the poll comes out.
     
    FATC1TY likes this.
  9. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,819) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    60 minutes. Usually I have full conversion in 30 though according to the old iodine test.
     
    jlordi12 likes this.
  10. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Same here, except I do the visual test instead of iodine.
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  11. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    calibrated eyeball. That's what I use too.
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    90 minutes. Fairly high percent adjunct grains. Plus, that will give me some time to take my dog for a walk.
     
    jlordi12 likes this.
  13. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    60 minutes, purely out of habit.
     
    Slatetank and jlordi12 like this.
  14. BrewGator

    BrewGator Initiate (75) Dec 17, 2009 North Carolina

    How does the visual test for starch conversion work? What do you look for?
     
  15. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I usually do a 30 min mash, but I don't mash out so the extra time during sparging and collecting help conversion.

    I picked low and slow here too. 120 min, I've never done a mash that long, and I'm not sure if I have the patience for it. I may change my vote to 90 towards the end if that helps.
     
  16. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    When you first mash in it is all milky and foggy, lots of grains on the surface. As it converts, the milky starches clarify and the grains begin to settle out. When I go to stir at 30 minutes the top level of the wort becomes Crystal clear, only a couple grains or husks floating around, and a fairly goupy layer of wet flour packed over the grainbed. Conversion can happen fairly quick, but the fermentability can still shift after conversion is done (conversion of starch to sugars, but the length of sugar chains still shift as long as the enzymes are still active.
     
    BrewGator likes this.
  17. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I'll be doing a 60 min regardless. I fly sparge, and we're not doing a mashout...so it would be completely pointless for me to go any longer than 60.

    Even if doing a mash out I only go longer than 60 min if there is a considerable percentage of wheat or rye in the grist, or if it's a big beer.
     
  18. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,377) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    I overnight mash most of the time, so I went 120
     
  19. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    You need to get a dog.
     
    JohnSnowNW and ChrisMyhre like this.
  20. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    At least some of those enzymes should still be active during sparking as well eh? I like to sparge with 160 F liquor at around 5.8 pH. Sparge is typically 90 minutes, so in theory, enzymes have anywhere between 60 and 150 minutes to break starches and complex sugars down.
     
    jbakajust1 and Naugled like this.
  21. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    And speaking of mash ... I wonder if adding in some 6-row malted barley, due to high diastatic power, would help to dry out the final product?
     
  22. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (393) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Probably not. I recently read (I believe another thread on here regarding CAP) that the difference in diastatic power between 2 row and 6 row is pretty marginal these days.
     
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  23. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Median and Mode: 60. The Mean is 74, but the Something Longer Than 60 crowd doesn't have anywhere near the votes to win a runoff against 60. 60 minutes it is.
     
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