Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #3 - Yeast Timing

Just wanted to make sure people see this.

 

My experience is that Brett is wonderful when used under pressure, and creates wonderful aromatics quicker than when added to a fermentor. That being said, the ability to bottle w/ Brett really is dependent on the FG of the beer which we don't know yet.

 

I voted to add Brett before primary fermentation is complete as, I believe, this will give us more Brett character in a shorter amount of time.

 

If adding Brett at packaging wins, what would be the target FG from the sach fermentation for say, 3.0-3.4 volumes of co2? (Keggers will definitely be off the hook is FG is missed.)

 

Is the FG really going to vary given the way most (all?) saison yeasts behave? I guess it depends on the grain bill, but I would not think bottling with brett would be a major problem.

 

I voted to add the brett before fermentation is finished, something like 3724 for a week then add the brett should make for a tasty beer.

 

With the exception of when I've used 3726, I've yet to have a saison finish above 1.004, even with OGs north of 1.070 and crystal in the grainbill for my Christmas ales.

 

@wspscott @MrOH I totally agree, but as a crowd sourced recipe with the possibility of fairly new brewers who want to make a funky Saison trying to brew this recipe, I thought it wise to throw it out there that there is the possibility of creating bottle bombs if Brett is added at bottling w/o reaching a low enough FG. Those of us who have been doing this longer will make starters, use temp control, and be patient (if we choose 3724, I really hope we do) to achieve the FG the recipe calls for. Others might just pitch a 3 month old packet of yeast then try to bottle it with Brett after 2 weeks.

 

Option A or B both seem fine to me. I don't have any experience with adding at bottling, nor do I want to bottle!

 

Option A.. I figure that to be as close to "co-pitch"..

 

I think the specific saison yeast and brett being used here might actually dictate the timing. For example if using 3724 and wyeast brett lambicus( that doesnt like high temps) We'd definitely not want to pitch the brett till we've cooled the beer down down from the temps the saison yeast wants to operate at otherwise we'll end up getting a lot nasty stuff from the brett at those temps.

So it might be worth visiting yeast selection first, then revisiting the timing.

 

True enough. Given that line of thought, though, do we really want noobs playing around with brett at all?

 

That would have to be up to them individually of course, but if we want the averagely PERFECT Saison, then Brett is in the mix.

 

So, as perfect as the average brewer can muster, instead of the average of perfect execution.

 

I'd say perfect recipe construction based on average of brewers input, but each brewer is able to brew said recipe to the best of their ability. From past threads on how the IPA and Stout were executed, there were brewer tweeks done to the recipe.

 

That is a good point, but we don't have to ferment 3724 in the 90s, we just have to be patient like @jbakajust1 suggested. Or in other words, we can't agree/vote to do dumb shit

I would think that choosing specific yeasts first then deciding on specific timings makes the most sense. We might also want to think about fermentation temps before we decide when to add the brett.

 

But you have previously stated that you preferred the results of brett under pressure (which, to me, in the realm of homebrewing, would either mean at bottling or in a closed fermentor, i.e. keg condititioning). Then you say that a lot of folks can't be trusted to ensure a tricky sacc fermentation is carried out properly, but let's go ahead and toss some brett into the mix, which everyone agrees on isn't for everyone. Seems to me that the best way to ensure a proper product would be to handle the medium-difficulty task well, and then have the advanced shit completely optional at packaging.
FWIW, I don't want this to turn into one of those @VikeMan vs. @JackHorzempa threads.
I just think that you can have an awesome saison with just sacc if you know what you're doing, and if you want to step it up a notch from there, add another layer of complexity by bottling with brett.