Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #4 - Which Saccharomyces strain(s)?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jan 7, 2015.

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Which Saccharomyces strain(s) will be used?

Poll closed Jan 9, 2015.
  1. WLP565/Wyeast 3724

    51.6%
  2. WLP566

    6.5%
  3. Wyeast 3711

    19.4%
  4. Lallemand Belle Saison

    3.2%
  5. Mangrove Jack's Belgian Ale

    3.2%
  6. WLP585*

    11.3%
  7. Wyeast 3725*

    1.6%
  8. Wyeast 3726*

    19.4%
  9. ECY Saison Brasserie*

    9.7%
  10. Yeast Bay Wallonian Farmhouse

    6.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    The previous poll (#3) determined that we'll use a Saccharomyces strain(s), followed by a Brettanomyces strain(s) in primary, sometime before attenuation with the Sacch strain(s) is complete.

    This poll will determine which Sacch strain(s) to pitch at the beginning of primary fermentation.

    You can select more than one strain. If two or more strains are selected by more than 40% of voters, they'll be considered by another poll, alone and in combination with each other (to determine if just one sacch strain or multiple sacch strains will be pitched). If one or zero strains in this poll (#4) are selected by more than 40% of the voters, the strain with the most votes wins (straight plurality), and will be the only sacch strain pitched.

    If your first choice is losing miserably, consider jumping ship to your second choice before the poll is closed. The new poll format allows it.

    Please note some of the candidates are marked with an asterisk. Those strains are either seasonal or apt to be unavailable at any random time. If any of these strains ends up in the recipe, there will also be another poll(s) to determine a closest recommended contingency substitute.

    If you want a strain that's not listed, write it in. And perhaps one of our esteemed moderators will add it to the poll. And remember, you can change your votes up until the poll closes.

    This poll will be open for 36 hours.
    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Yeast: Saccharomyces strain(s), followed by Brettanomyces strain(s) in primary, sometime before attenuation with the Sacch strain(s) is complete.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Crap. Lallemand "Balle" Saison --> Lallemand Belle Saison
     
  3. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (454) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    ECY is hard to get a hold of. I think we should scrap that one right off the bat.
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  4. udubdawg

    udubdawg Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2006 Kansas

    if 585 was in season that'd be my easy choice. Love that stuff.
     
  5. Smw356

    Smw356 Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2013 Ohio

    how about yeast bay wallonian farmhouse
     
  6. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Dupont all the way.
     
    wspscott likes this.
  7. Smw356

    Smw356 Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2013 Ohio

    or WL644 :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  8. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Really hard to argue with Dupont, makes delicious beer and is easily available

    Not a huge fan of Belle Saison, it makes a decent beer, but the convenience of dry yeast is outweighed by the "simplicity", definitely not as good as Dupont. Same goes for 3711 and it doesn't have the benefits of dry yeast.
     
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Do I need to even write what I voted for?
     
  10. sjverla

    sjverla Disciple (397) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    My vote is for NOT 3711. I've used it twice. It's easy, high attenuating and I'm over it.
     
  11. checktherhyme

    checktherhyme Initiate (160) Apr 8, 2008 Washington

    Am I the only one who loves Belle Saison yeast? I have brewed with nearly every strain that is commercially available and the Belle is as good as any in my opinion.
     
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    @Smw356 I have added Yeast Bay as an option, please feel free to cast your vote for it in the poll.
     
  13. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (454) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    I liked it, as well.
     
    checktherhyme likes this.
  14. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,820) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    May need to double batch this one just to try this strain regardless of results of poll.
     
    PortLargo and jbakajust1 like this.
  15. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (484) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    For those voters who like 3724, you will love 3726 . . . just sayin' . . .
     
    skivtjerry and jamescain like this.
  16. BrewGator

    BrewGator Initiate (75) Dec 17, 2009 North Carolina

    I love WLP566. It's supposedly another Dupont isolate and gives that great Dupont fruitiness and mild spice without the earthy characters that I personally don't care for. It also attenuates reliably without the over-attenuation of 3711.
     
  17. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    What about a copitch primary sacc?
     
  18. OddNotion

    OddNotion Zealot (585) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey

    ECY Saison Brasserie has been a part of the best Saison's I have made. I would have voted for it, but I know getting it in everyone's hands will be too much of a pain. I went with WLP585 since I have wanted to use it for a while and people seem to only have great things to say about it.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Both ECY08 and WLP585 make outstanding Saison beers. Obtaining WLP585 is going to be problematic since it is part of the White Labs Platinum series (a seasonal).

    I will be homebrewing with WLP585 when it is released in July-Sept. 2015.

    Cheers!
     
    OddNotion likes this.
  20. udubdawg

    udubdawg Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2006 Kansas

    Great yeast. Makes a nice belgian pale ale too. I even make cider with it when I'm feeling a little experiment-y. In your experience, does it tend to build krausen for a day and then fall to bottom and start to work vigorously? Every time for me.
     
  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I'm not sure if you were reminding people that that's a possibility, or asking if it is, but...

     
  22. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I wonder if @OldSock has been following these threads?

    Cheers!
     
  23. alanforbeer

    alanforbeer Initiate (58) Jan 29, 2011 South Carolina

    3726 is my favorite. Availability is Oct. - Dec., but a quick google search shows that there is still some sitting around from last year.

    If 3724 wins out (as it probably will), I'll be getting my 3724 from the bottom of several bottles of Saison Dupont!
     
  24. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,512) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society

    I ain't jumpin' ship, I'm sticking with 3711 even if it's losing. :sunglasses:
     
  25. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Mine is built up to 1L already. Waiting to brew a Saison soon.
     
  26. OldSock

    OldSock Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Not since the first one. Just opposite from the way I design recipes. I start with an idea for what I want the finished beer to taste like, and then work backwards from there.
     
    jamescain and JackHorzempa like this.
  27. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Understood.

    I typically take an iterative approach to recipe design where I will re-think prior decisions based upon later decisions. Needless to say but this approach would not work for these threads since they are predicated on a linear approach.

    Cheers!
     
  28. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,512) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society

    A noble approach.

    I prefer the approach that results in a surprise when I pop open the first bottle [new beers only, not established favorites]. Great for the crowd-sourced internet beer recipe, as long as you have the common sense to filter out the occasional dead possum that winds up on the grainbill. :grimacing:
     
  29. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (484) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    IIRC, krausen was modest, but activity remained high enough to finish at 1.002. Surprisingly, when I blended 3726 with 3724 the results were less than the sum.

    My experience is DuPont has been the single easiest yeast to harvest . . . quick with good results. Currently aging a DuPont-dreg Saison that looks to be first class.

    I also harvest from Blaugies and pretend that is 3726 (which I believe is correct?) . . . have been happy with the results.
     
  30. jamescain

    jamescain Initiate (0) Jul 14, 2009 Texas

    I recommend using dry possum post fermentation for the most possum :sunglasses:
     
    jbakajust1 and AlCaponeJunior like this.
  31. LakesideBrewing

    LakesideBrewing Initiate (88) Dec 1, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    DuPont, especially since your adding Brett to finish up.
     
  32. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,512) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society

    you are lucky I'm going blind, and the computer screen was actually far from my face when I spewed Laguitas Brown Shugga Substitute all over the place after reading your reply. :sunglasses:
     
  33. Lukass

    Lukass Meyvn (1,026) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio

    I chose 3711, because it worked wonders on a black pepper saison I did over the summer. Really though, I'd be happy with any one of these sacch strains
     
  34. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,820) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    Sooo not to pizz on anyones parade but I had read in a zymurgy article that WLP565 is duponts saison strain while wyeast 3724 is their biere de garde strain....
     
  35. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    FWIW, in the July/August 2014 Zymurgy article entitled Saison Resurgence on page 38:

    · WLP565 (Dupont 2)

    · Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison (Dupont 1).

    Cheers!
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  36. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    According to @OldSock blog posting 565/3724 are the same single isolate from Dupont and 566 is another single isolate from Dupont. There are still (at least) 2 other strains in Dupont's house culture, at least one of these is Brett, but neither of these have been isolated and sold commercially nor is the entire blend sold for that matter. WY3725 is the Beire de Garde strain from Fantome.
     
  37. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,820) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    So yes, they are two different strains?
     
  38. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    According to Jason Yester (author of the Zymurgy article) WLP565 and WY3724 are two separate strains. Drew Beechum in a past thread states the same.

    You can read above that Michael Tonsmiere apparently states differently.

    Also Michael states: “White Labs produces another strain, Belgian Saison II (WLP566) that is rumored to be a different isolate from Brasserie Dupont. WLP566 has a similar character to WLP565 (although it tends to be slightly fruitier), but is less finicky to work with.”

    Cheers!
     
  39. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,820) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    thanks jack. So why is it the two get lumped together in discussions? Simply because they are both DuPont strains?
     
  40. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,940) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    If WLP565 and WY3724 are two separate strains you could co-pitch these two to ‘better’ replicate a Dupont clone. If you want to get really wild, add WLP566 to the mix as well.

    A Saison party!:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
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