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Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #5B - Which Brettanomyces strain(s)? - Segment B

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jan 9, 2015.

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Which Brett Strain(s) should be used? (don't forget to also vote in the other segment)

Poll closed Jan 10, 2015.

  1. WLP644 (bruxellensis trois)

    22 vote(s)
    52.4%

  2. WLP645 (clausseni)

    10 vote(s)
    23.8%

  3. WLP650 (bruxellensis)

    10 vote(s)
    23.8%

  4. WLP653 (lambicus)

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%

  5. ECY03-B (farmhouse brett, pure brett strain only)*

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. ECY04 (anomala)*

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%

  7. ECY05 (bruxellensis)*

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  8. ECY30 (naardenensis)*

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%

  9. ECY34 (dirty dozen)*

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  10. NONE FROM THIS LIST (and I know there's another list too)

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,055) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The previous poll (#4) determined that WLP565/Wyeast 3724 will be used in primary.

    This poll will determine which Brettanomyces strain(s) to pitch in the primary, sometime before attenuation with the Sacch strain is complete.

    You can select more than one strain. If two or more strains are selected by more than 40% of total voters, they'll be considered by another poll, alone and in combination with each other (to determine if just one brett strain or multiple brett strains will be pitched). If one or zero strains in this poll (#5) are selected by more than 40% of the voters, the strain with the most votes wins (straight plurality), and will be the only brett strain pitched. No attempt has been made to lump same species from different suppliers together as the same presumed strain.

    NOTE: Because of the large number or Brett choices available, this poll is in two segments, #5A and #5B, running at the same time. Please vote in BOTH poll segments. Each one has a "none from this list" option. Checking that box if you don't want any of the choices in that segment will help to normalize the percentages between the two segments. Of course, you can also vote for strains from both segments.

    If your first choice is losing miserably, consider jumping ship to your second choice before the poll is closed. The new poll format allows it.

    Please note some of the candidates are marked with an asterisk. Those strains are either seasonal or apt to be unavailable at any random time. If any of these strains ends up in the recipe, there will also be another poll(s) to determine a closest recommended contingency substitute.

    If you want a strain that's not listed, write it in. And perhaps one of our esteemed moderators will add it to the poll. And remember, you can change your votes up until the poll closes.
    This poll will be open for 36 hours.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Yeast: WLP565/Wyeast 3724, followed by Brettanomyces strain(s) in primary, sometime before attenuation with the Sacch strain is complete.
     
    #1 VikeMan, Jan 9, 2015
  2. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,853) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Orval dregs.
     
    #2 skivtjerry, Jan 9, 2015
    secondbase, bushycook, ChrisMyhre and 3 others like this.
  3. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't be too off the reservation to suggest yeast bay farmhouse sour ale...

    Well, yeah.. I would... no brett in it that I know of...just lacto.
     
    #3 FATC1TY, Jan 9, 2015
  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,946) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    From googling around, it looks like most people have used 644 in 100% brett beers. I did a killer IPA with it that way. Hard to find much info about using it as a secondary. I just moved a keg of a rye saison with Belle Saison and then 644 to the kegerator to compare to the "plain" keg. I'll have a taste tomorrow evening and report back.
     
    #4 wspscott, Jan 9, 2015
    PortLargo likes this.
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    644, is tasty.. dry, funk, and fruit.

    I think it will work well!

    I'm already planning on doing more than 5 gallons, so I can split the fermentation with a couple strains.. Looking forward to sending some bottles out to folks here of them.
     
    #5 FATC1TY, Jan 9, 2015
    OddNotion, psnydez86 and wspscott like this.
  6. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I second using orval dregs.
     
    #6 NiceFly, Jan 9, 2015
    bushycook, ChrisMyhre and jbakajust1 like this.
  7. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,540) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I have used Brett Trois at bottling on a Dupont Saison, fruity, light funk, mild acid, SUPER foamy. Have heard it described as an old attic full of Skittles.
     
    #7 jbakajust1, Jan 9, 2015
    wspscott likes this.
  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,540) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I will also do a write in for Orval as I can't seem to add it to the poll.
     
    #8 jbakajust1, Jan 9, 2015
  9. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Another write in for Orval dregs.
     
    #9 ChrisMyhre, Jan 9, 2015
  10. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    There's a local place with 2-3 year old bottles of Orval.. I should buy one.

    I'm voting for keeping it simple, as I think adding dregs would only complicate this process, as well as people having to build up said dregs too.
     
    #10 FATC1TY, Jan 9, 2015
  11. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Although I am not voting for a particular strain (as I have no experience with Brett), I also vote for keeping it simple by not having to build up dregs from any particular commercial beer. Cheers!
     
    #11 utahbeerdude, Jan 9, 2015
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,946) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    It just occurred to me after reading @jbakajust1 and @FATC1TY above, since we are adding the brett before attenuation is finished, is 644 likely to produce the awesomely outrageous tropical fruits that you get if used as the primary yeast? If so, count me in :slight_smile:
     
    #12 wspscott, Jan 9, 2015
  13. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    Make a starter from Orval dregs. If people are going to be funkin' around with Brett, they should be able to make a simple starter. Plus you get to drink some world class beer.
     
    #13 bushycook, Jan 9, 2015
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  14. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I voted for the 644, but I'm also voting for Orval dregs. I think that will be nice in a Saison as well as provide an interesting technique/twist to the recipe, and it should be available.
     
    #14 Naugled, Jan 9, 2015
    PortLargo and jbakajust1 like this.
  15. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    644 has been popular with our brew club.
     
    #15 bluehende, Jan 9, 2015
  16. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    So, if we use 644, are we going to have to call it a "Brett?" Saison?
     
    #16 JohnSnowNW, Jan 9, 2015
  17. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,540) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I know right. What if all this is for nothing and as we get to the end of this project the announce that this strain is truly a wild Sacc strain and we have to do these polls again? I guess @VikeMan could just take all the ones that had a decent amount of votes in these threads and run them against each other.
     
    #17 jbakajust1, Jan 9, 2015
    JohnSnowNW likes this.
  18. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    What I really want to know is why we don't know the answer yet. Seems like White Labs should have been able to discover this relatively quickly...maybe not?
     
    #18 JohnSnowNW, Jan 9, 2015
    pweis909 and jbakajust1 like this.
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,055) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    My thoughts... I have read all the information I could find, mainly at http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html?m=1, and the amateur geneticist in me (former hobby) says 644 is most likely a new species. It's appears to be Generically Sacch, but less close to Saccharomyces cerevisiae than any of the other Sacch species are to each other. So even lumpers would probably reluctantly agree that if inserted into the currently accepted family tree, it would be a new species.

    So if all the above is true and confirmed by more testing... it's something truly different. Neither Brett nor S. cerevisiae. But because it acts like Brett in important ways, I'd be inclined to let it stand... if people, knowing the potential reclassification is coming, vote for it anyway based on performance, I think that trumps genetics.

    Of course, this is assuming that it wins anyway. Yet to be seen.
     
    #19 VikeMan, Jan 9, 2015
    machalel, FATC1TY, wspscott and 4 others like this.
  20. Smw356

    Smw356 Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2013 Ohio

    FWIW i've done several beers with Dupont + Brett? Trois, and it definitely behaves like brett in that situation (extra attenuation, some funky phenols when young, that turn to fruity pineapple esters as aged, ) though brett C does that all a bit better.
     
    #20 Smw356, Jan 9, 2015
    FATC1TY and PortLargo like this.
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