Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #6 - ABV

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jan 10, 2015.

?

What shoud the ABV target be?

Poll closed Jan 12, 2015.

  1. 5%

    20 vote(s)
    31.3%

  2. 5.3%

    2 vote(s)
    3.1%

  3. 5.5%

    8 vote(s)
    12.5%

  4. 5.7%

    7 vote(s)
    10.9%

  5. 5.9%

    5 vote(s)
    7.8%

  6. 6.1%

    10 vote(s)
    15.6%

  7. 6.3%

    3 vote(s)
    4.7%

  8. 6.5%

    8 vote(s)
    12.5%

  9. 6.7%

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%

  10. 7%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    The previous poll (#5A and #5B) determined that WLP644 will be the Brett strain to pitch in the primary, sometime before attenuation with WLP565/Wyeast 3724 is complete. Congrats to a sizable majority of voters who read directions and voted in both segments. We're going to leave exact timing of the Brett pitch (at 'x' gravity points remaining or whatever) until later, after we have established at least the size of the beer and the grain bill.

    This poll (#6) will determine the ABV target. Want an ABV lower than 5% or higher than 7%? Let your anti-BJCP freak flag fly and write it in. Want an ABV between 5% and 7%, but not exactly one of the choices offered? Pick the closest one you can live with. When this poll is done, I will look at the data a few different ways to determine if there is a central tendency. It may or may not be as simple as a plurality would indicate. There may or may not be a runoff(s). It all depends on the data.

    I encourage you to think and discuss in terms of ABV for a very highly attenuated beer. In other words, if you don't have much experience with Saisons, don't start with an Original Gravity (OG) in mind and apply a rule of thumb attenuation to get your ABV preference. Consider this in the context of the (highly attenuative) yeast strains being used and a grain bill/fermentables that may be already in your mind's eye.

    Note: We'll determine ABV, then Final Gravity. OG will be the natural consequence of those two numbers. The ABV formula tying ABV, FG, and OG together will be the standard homebrewing formula (ABV = 131.25 x (OG - FG)), not the more accurate/advanced one. This is so that the result is more likely to meet most people's expectations.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours, with it being the weekend and all.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Yeast: WLP565/Wyeast 3724, followed by WLP644 in primary, sometime before attenuation is complete (exact timing TBD).
     
    #1 VikeMan, Jan 10, 2015
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  2. Lukass

    Lukass Meyvn (1,025) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio

    I went with 6.3, just because I've never had a higher gravity saison that I really cared for, aside from Matt's Burning Rosids.
     
    #2 Lukass, Jan 10, 2015
  3. OddNotion

    OddNotion Zealot (585) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey

    I agree I'm that I am not a fan of high abv saisons. I went with 5.7
     
    #3 OddNotion, Jan 10, 2015
  4. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    Do not want a high abv one as well. Keep in mind we will probably end up getting this beast to 1.000-1.003
     
    #4 FATC1TY, Jan 10, 2015
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  5. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I chose on the low side as well, I just prefer lower abv saisons.
     
    #5 Naugled, Jan 10, 2015
    NiceFly and jbakajust1 like this.
  6. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    I went with 5.5, I hope that I can drink this by the bucket after mowing the lawn.
     
    #6 wspscott, Jan 10, 2015
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  7. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I voted 5.7 percent, myself.

    If anything, because I'm wanting it to be a lower OG, so I can brew a little more, as I not so secretly want to sour some of it a little. :wink:
     
    #7 FATC1TY, Jan 10, 2015
  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    I went with 5%. But I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to Saison, light, crisp, bone dry, crushable, bold flavors, low ABV.
     
    #8 jbakajust1, Jan 10, 2015
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  9. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Just changed my vote to 5%, sounds much better for a lawnmower beer vs 5.5
     
    #9 wspscott, Jan 10, 2015
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  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I looked at my last 3 saisons and they were 8.4% (hyperattenuated rocket fuel; thanks, 3711), 6.4% (good, but still strong; Belle Saison) and 5.4% (best saison I ever made; 3724). Going with 5.5.
     
    #10 pweis909, Jan 11, 2015
  11. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Anti BJCP freak flag, that was pretty funny.
    Went with 5% then read the comments. Seems alot of us plan on working on the lawn or in the garden with this one.
    Very smart way to go about determining the OG as well @VikeMan
     
    #11 NiceFly, Jan 11, 2015
  12. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Just jumped ship to 5%, due to compelling arguments.
     
    #12 JohnSnowNW, Jan 11, 2015
  13. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Just out of curiosity, Vikeman, do you vote in these? I was just thinking about how you provide so much beery wisdom in the forum, but when we do these polls, are you adding that beery wisdom to the mix?
     
    #13 pweis909, Jan 11, 2015
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  14. bluehende

    bluehende Poo-Bah (2,440) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware
    Society

    5.9 Not a fan of high ABV Saisons. I would err on the low side of that even.
     
    #14 bluehende, Jan 11, 2015
  15. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    5.5 for the same reasons as the rest of you.
     
    #15 ChrisMyhre, Jan 11, 2015
  16. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    I voted for 6.1, I'd like it to be bone dry with a tiny kick. It seems like the general concensus is that people aren't a fan of high gravity saisons, i too, prefer the smaller ones. The only exceptions imo are Blvd saison brett, and tank 7. That being said, this isn't an "imperial" saison project.
     
    #16 shredder83, Jan 11, 2015
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I don't vote in the polls. As the pollster, I don't want to skew the results.
     
    #17 VikeMan, Jan 11, 2015
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  18. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (454) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    anything between 5 & 6 would be okay w/ me, can have a couple and still function. Voted for 5.5
     
    #18 jlordi12, Jan 11, 2015
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  19. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    What if the results need a good skewing? :slight_smile:
     
    #19 wspscott, Jan 11, 2015
    Naugled likes this.
  20. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia


    I don't feel it would skew the results, so vote!
     
    #20 FATC1TY, Jan 11, 2015
  21. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (393) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I am in no way impugning our pollster's integrity. However, it seems to me that if the pollster were to vote, then the pollster's preference might influence the pollster's interpretation (however so slightly) and thus utilization of said data.
     
    #21 utahbeerdude, Jan 11, 2015
  22. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    You raise a fair point, however, if the exact criteria used for determining a winner is laid out first, then that should be minimised.
     
    #22 machalel, Jan 12, 2015
  23. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia


    I get that part, but I think there's a wide range of options there, and if something has been missing, there are write in, or edits to the polls to have it added. Pollster could omit some things from the voting if they really wanted to influence the vote.

    If he didn't vote first, so that everyone knew what he voted for, I don't see much issue in the grand scheme of it all.
     
    #23 FATC1TY, Jan 12, 2015
  24. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    5% for me, although I love plenty of saison out there that is higher abv (Fantome, Logsdon, Anchorage Love Buzz, Boulevard Tank 7 & Saison-Brett, Hennepin, Prairie).

    If 5% though, will need a good dosing of wheat or body building grain when it comes time to decide that. 5% with this brew will be very low OG & FG with Brett chomping through any residuals.
     
    #24 hoptualBrew, Jan 12, 2015
  25. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    That was my initial thought too, in my mind I'm thinking a FG 1.005 which is just a guess and by no means a representation of what the actual poll result will be since we haven't decided, we're looking at less than 1.045. It will be interesting to see where the FG poll takes us.
     
    #25 epic1856, Jan 12, 2015
  26. firstthenlast

    firstthenlast Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2013 Massachusetts

    Should have options of going below 5% imo.
     
    #26 firstthenlast, Jan 12, 2015
  27. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Meyvn (1,068) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    So write it in. See if it gains traction.
     
    #27 FeDUBBELFIST, Jan 12, 2015
  28. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Some mornings it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraints.
    (You do have the option. See the instructions.)
     
    #28 VikeMan, Jan 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  29. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Off-centered ales for off-centered people. Here's what the data says. Mean and Median are both 5.7%. With a normal or nearly normal distribution, that would be a slam dunk. But the distribution is a bit bi-modal, with a very strong mode at 5% and a fairly good secondary mode/central tendency by eyeball at around 6.1%-ish. My inner ops research analyst wants a runoff between 5% and 6.1%, but it might also be folly (that's right, folly!) to ignore the mean/median. So... three way runoff it is, between 5.0%, 5.7%, and 6.1%. As these are discrete choices, it will be a winner take all plurality poll. I'm looking forward to seeing the result, because I wouldn't put my money on any of the three right now.
     
    #29 VikeMan, Jan 12, 2015
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