Brett Saison - process question/splitting in secondary

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by adamholl, Oct 15, 2015.

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  1. adamholl

    adamholl Devotee (357) Sep 5, 2009 New York

    Hi all - I'm gearing up to brew a Brett Saison, and wanted to get some opinions on process. First time brewing with Brett. I understand that there are a variety of approaches, that none is necessarily right or wrong, and that there are good results with lots of ways - pitching brett and sacch together, brett only, brett in secondary, etc.

    Anyway - here is what I am thinking. First, my goal is to have the beer ready in 6 months or so. Maybe that is pushing it a bit time-wise, maybe not, I'm not sure. So that is partly what I am trying to figure out.

    My thought is to brew my saison like I normally would. Ferment in primary with sacch, either 3711 or 3724. After 1-2 weeks, I would pitch Brett - my current plan is dregs from a bottle of Boulevard Saison Brett.

    Most of my questions are at this point - will there be enough for the Brett to eat at that point? Will there be too much? Should I pitch the dregs along with sacch when I brew? Should I pitch just the dregs when I brew?

    Also, I will likely brew a small-ish batch, 1.5 - 2 gallons. Assuming I pitch the dregs, should I use a starter? Or just pitch from the bottle directly? Does the answer to that question depend on when I am adding the brett dregs?

    And, last question - thinking about splitting the batch in secondary. I know, I will not have very much of any particular variation if I split it, but could also be a fun trial. I am thinking oak chips or spirals, or maybe lacto or pedio, or maybe a fruit addition. If I do, any thoughts on length of time for the addition?

    And one more last question - if I secondary for ~5 months in a bucket, will that be a problem due to porousness, or will the brett make that not a problem?

    Any answers, or general thoughts, are much appreciated. Everyone here is always super helpful, which to a relatively new brewer like myself, makes a world of difference.
     
    #1 adamholl, Oct 15, 2015
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    #2 jbakajust1, Oct 15, 2015
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  3. JeremyDanner

    JeremyDanner Zealot (679) Dec 20, 2005 Missouri

    We've inoculated one off kegs with bottles of Saison-Brett with some pretty great results. It's worth mentioning that in addition to the brett, you're also getting champagne yeast in the bottle.
     
    #3 JeremyDanner, Oct 16, 2015
  4. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Dregs are a great choice. I tend to add them at the same time as my starter of Sacch, just to give the microbes a little oxygen and simple sugars to get them going. No need for a starter for the dregs (it will likely do more to grow the Champagne yeast than the Brett. However, starting with so few cells will extend the aging time required to get it funky. My “house” Brett saison culture is now pretty funky in just 4-6 weeks.

    Brett will basically do its thing with or without much sugar. The Brett tends to be funkier when it doesn’t do much of the fermentation (even pitched in primary, dregs will do little of the work). This is why 100% Brett beers are usually pretty fruity, when yeast ferment sugars (especially simple ones) (especially simple ones) they produce esters.

    I don’t like extended bucket-aging, but more as a result of the lids (which often don’t seal properly) rather than the inherent permeability of the plastic itself.

    I’d rather see you split the batch between a couple Brett sources, rather than getting into oak/fruit/bacteria. I think they thrive in different sorts of beer than a saison. For them I’d be mashing hotter and trying to save carbohydrates for the bacteria, which do need sugar to produce lactic acid. For my palate sour goes with fruit more than funk. I also think maltier sours go better with oak (although a touch can be OK in a saison).

    Best of luck!
     
    #4 OldSock, Oct 16, 2015
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  5. adamholl

    adamholl Devotee (357) Sep 5, 2009 New York

    Thank you! Extremely helpful.
     
    #5 adamholl, Oct 16, 2015
  6. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If boulevard has champagne yeast dont co pitch with your sacc. The champagne yeast will kill your sacc.
     
    #6 SFACRKnight, Oct 17, 2015
  7. MarriedAtGI

    MarriedAtGI Zealot (569) Feb 26, 2013 Illinois

    Co-pitching with Boulevard dregs has worked very well for me. No problems with fermentation or bottle carbing. I used 1 bottle of dregs for a 3 gallon batch of saison last summer.

    After 7 weeks in primary, it was down to 1.001, so I bottled it. (The no dregs batch was bottled at 1.003 at 4 weeks.) the Brett character was already noticeable at bottling, and at 6 months, it was nicely developed. Of course, it continues to develop after that, so try not to drink it all at 6 months!

    I was happy enough with the results that I repeated it recently, this time with both an all Pilsner saison and a 25% rye saison, and again there were no problems with fermentation.
     
    #7 MarriedAtGI, Oct 18, 2015
  8. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    I've never had issues with dregs containing "killer" yeast, as long as I don't grow them up first. The big pitch of brewer's yeast is going to eat all of the simple sugars in less than 24 hours, and then there won't be anything for the juice-specialists to ferment.
     
    #8 OldSock, Oct 19, 2015
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