Critique my Lizard King clone

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Dan_K, Apr 15, 2016.

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  1. Dan_K

    Dan_K Zealot (515) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado

    Lizard King is Mosaic Hopped APA from Pipeworks that I really enjoy. It's got moderate bitterness, lots of flavor/aroma, and a light color. I think it's slightly hazy too. With that in mind, this is my attempt at replicating it. I haven't found a Lizard King Clone recipe online that makes any sense.

    Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
    Boil Size: 6.0 gallons
    OG: 1.060
    FG: 1.014

    7.5 lbs Pilsner LME
    2.0 lbs Wheat LME (21.1%)
    Mosaic Hops:
    1oz @ 25 min
    1oz @ 10 min
    2oz @ flameout (cool to ~100 degrees and add hops, steep for 15 min)
    4oz dry hop 4 days

    Yeast- Wyeast American Ale II 1272
    Fermentation Temp- 70
    SRM- 3.5
    IBU- 43
    ABV 5.9
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (2,078) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    From what I recall you are on point with hop additions. Yours may have a bit more mouthfeel and sweetness from the lme as it isn't as ferment able as all grain, but roll with it and see what comes out the other side.
    DrMindbender likes this.
  3. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    It is hopped with Mosaic and Amarillo. At least it was when I had it. Google concurs.
    Hogue2112 likes this.
  4. Dan_K

    Dan_K Zealot (515) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado

    I had seen that elsewhere, Pipeworks is notoriously vague with their descriptors. You think Amarillo is used in the dry hop or somewhere in between?

    I am splitting a lb of Mosaic with my friend, and so this is the recipe I came up with to utilize 8oz of Mosaic hops. I'm almost wondering if even just 1oz of late addition Amarillo is enough to tweak the flavor profile more over to citrus and away from melon.
  5. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I don't know their hop schedule. Amarillo seemed to be mostly in the flavor. Mosaic was in the aroma and flavor.

    The aroma of a 1 week old can was not on par with a 4oz Mosaic dry hop in terms of intensity. It was more like 2oz.

    Of course, that doesn't mean you shouldn't use 4oz., if that's what you want to do. Mosaic is easy to overdo, IMO.

    I'd use 2oz of Amarillo in the boil at 5 mins and a little less Mosaic in the boil.
  6. Dan_K

    Dan_K Zealot (515) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado

    I have 8oz of Mosaic to work with, so I'll be using most or all of it. I might add 1oz of Amarillo at some point. Not at flameout and probably not the 20 min addition either, so I guess at 10 minutes.

    Any opinion on the percentage of wheat malt I should be using? Enough for body, head retention, and haze, but not enough to make it overly wheaty.
  7. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    Forgive my noobery, but it seems odd to me that your first hop addition is @25 minutes. I've brewed only 4 batches, 3 different beers, and they all have started with substantial hop additions at 60 minutes. A pale ale, an IPA (twice) and an arrogant bastard clone).
  8. Teton

    Teton Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2013 Colorado

    I'd think about a small bittering addition at 60, then shift the rest of the boil additions to later, like 10, 5, 1 instead of 25 and 10.

    100 degrees is a pretty low temperature for a whirlpool/steep. Not sure you need to take it that far down, but the science and strategy around hop stands/whirlpools seem to be very murky. Lots of info and opinions out there on this though, and most of what I've read people are staying higher than 100 when they do this.
  9. Dan_K

    Dan_K Zealot (515) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado

    I can reach my target IBU without a bittering hop addition. Plus my goal is easy drinking. However, it certainly could be done if I had to. I'll think about raising the temp of my whirlpool a little bit. Maybe 120 or 140 degrees?
    #9 Dan_K, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  10. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    100F is too low for a hop steep. 150F-180F is the steep zone. Since you are only steeping for 15 mins, I recommend 170-180F.

    The rest looks ok to me. Wheat LME is only 50-60% wheat, so you are using about 10% wheat, which is fine.
  11. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (777) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    When you want a beer with a prominent bitterness then a 60 minute addition is recommended. If you are going for a subtler bitterness with higher levels of aroma and flavor from your hops then you can get the bitterness strictly from those additions.
    psnydez86 and Hop-Droppen-Roll like this.
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Savant (910) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    What @jbakajust1 said, but if you want more google "hop bursting". Basically you can get a little bit of bitterness and a lot of hop flavor with lots of hops added late in the boil.

    edit: here is a pretty good example
    Hop-Droppen-Roll and jbakajust1 like this.
  13. Dan_K

    Dan_K Zealot (515) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado

    I think I'm going to revise this a bit. I am going to do a partial mash and use malted white wheat and a bit of crystal. Here's what I'm thinking:
    7 lbs Pilsen LME 74.7%
    30 oz Malted White Wheat 20.0%
    8 oz Crystal 10 5.3%

    I am also going to use 1 oz of Amarillo and 6 oz of Mosaic, not sure yet about the hopping schedule but it will all be relatively late additions.
  14. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois

    Bumping this thread up.... OP any results? How did it turn out?

    I'm looking to brew an Amarillo/mosaic pale ale soon
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