There was a post in the Hot Take thread by @TheBungyo that got me wondering: “Having a lot of local breweries only means the shelves at stores are loaded with a lot of mediocre local beer that has pushed out superior imports and beers from other states.” While traveling throughout the US I have visited numerous breweries in various parts of the US (I discussed some of those visits in a number of recent NBW threads) but I very rarely visit beer shops to see what is on the shelf. I have little insight into packaged beer sales there. I am very spoiled that in my area (Philadelphia suburbs) there are many local breweries producing high quality beers of a large number of beer styles. In addition, I have a large selection on non-local beers at my local beer retailers (e.g., Retail Beer Distributors) to choose from. So, how is the packaged beer retail scene in your area? Do you experience a situation like TheBungyo describes above? Was selection better ‘back in the day’? Cheers!
Better and worse, in different ways. I can get some really quality beer at so many places, and that's been the case for a few years. Tropicana in Georgia, Lunch in Maine, Sip of Sunshine in Connecticut; I've had an absolutely stellar, delicious IPA readily available and reasonably fresh at all times, from beer shops to grocery stores to gas stations ... ... but the glut of local beer, and the prevalence of far too many IPAs, has resulted in: 1. Far too many stale IPAs (and other beers that depend on freshness). I very rarely get Sierra Nevada, because it's nearly impossible to find SNPA or Torpedo fresh. 2. Previously more readily available lagers (in particular imports) shoved aside because there are so many local beers that, frankly, just aren't that amazing. I'm not saying every European import is better than some of the lagers we brew here, by any means, but I'm not getting Fox Farm and Suarez Family on the shelves, either. I'd rather have a tried and true Helles from the Old World than the latest attempt at the style from a local brewery (when I could just visit that brewery if I really wanted to try it). 3. A significant and notable decline in special, rare, and great beers at shops and bars that specialize in craft beer. For that last point: We have a lot of very good local beer now, in pretty much every state - not necessarily every community or town, but every state. Much of the "Drink Local!" movement, well-intentioned as it may be, has resulted in many shops, bars, and restaurants that I've visited which used to be known as places you could go to get something you couldn't find elsewhere, now dominated nearly exclusively by local options - the same things that I can get basically anywhere that has craft beer. If I go to a reputable craft beer bar in New England, and they're proudly serving G-Bot, Lunch, SoS, Oxbow ... that's all stuff I can get at virtually any decent establishment nowadays. What about the stuff that doesn't easily or routinely make distro here? Beers from California, Alaska, Oklahoma, Colorado - not to mention Europe? In my experience, it has become so easy to find good local beers, that retailers seemingly have decided it's not worth the expense to ship in great beers from farther away. My fairly significant travel schedule across the US suggests that this is not limited to my location, either. (I used drinking establishments as the example there, but the same holds true for the craft beer selection at retailers.) All of that has significantly homogenized the craft beer experience for me. I drink the same IPA day after day not because it's the greatest (although it is pretty damn good), but because it's the only IPA of a similar character that I can easily and routinely find fresh - and while I'm thankful I can do that, it would be even better if I could mix it up more frequently with other superb and fresh hoppy beers (like SNPA!), instead of dealing only with stale Stone and SN beers, wall-to-wall dank hazies, and mediocre local beers.
Zero complaints. You can walk into Costco and get Fieldwork; you can walk into Whole Foods and get Heady; you can walk into my favorite store and get OH, Trillium, Hop Butcher, Great Notion, etc; Pliny grows on trees. We are living in great times.
I don’t have too many complaints about retail stores in my area except most have abandoned the ability to buy singles or drastically reduced singles to a curated section of mostly old and stale stuff that wasn’t selling. I miss 2010-2019 with my $15-20 mixer sixers to be able try new beers and new breweries without breaking the bank on gambling on a $20 4 pack. people have always complained about freshness of beer in retail for as long as I’ve been on Beer Advocate (going back to 2010). Remember the constant rants on the forums from around the country about stale FW Union Jack and other hoppy offerings? If anything I can find at least a few options now adays < 8 weeks old.
I suppose where I live is atypical as compared to other areas/regions of the US but I can find very high quality lagers (e.g., Pilsner, Helles, etc.) from locally brewed craft breweries with the 'bonus' I can find them very fresh. There are still some European (e.g., German, Czech,...) lagers available at my local beer retailers but more often than not they are too old. An old Helles (or other lager beer style) is not a joy to drink IMO. I did enjoy the very first drop of Augustiner Helles to the US since it was fresh: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-204.677560/#post-7999532 Prost!
Jack, I am consistently envious of your lager scene! Granted, I can get very high quality lagers near where I live - but not in any typical retailer. I've got to make the (reasonable) drive out to Fox Farm, or one of the craft beer bars that focuses on local CT craft beer, as a handful of our breweries are respectable in that game. But just grabbing off of the shelves? I almost exclusively stick with Weihenstephaner for Helles and Pilsner Urquell. Nothing against those beers by any means (if I didn't like them, I wouldn't get them!), but it makes for a bit of a rut. Cheers!
The lore is that Pennsylvania breweries make so many good lagers is due to the German immigrants: first arrived in 1683 to create Germantown; later a neighborhood of Philadelphia but larger numbers in the middle 1800’s. I personally have doubts about this. In my opinion, it started with the opening of Stoudts Brewery (Adamstown, PA) in 1987 by Ed and Carol Stoudt. I used to buy cases of Stoudts Gold ‘back in the day’ and it was years later I learned this beer was a Munich Helles. And in the 1990’s Victory, Troegs and Sly Fox opened producing tasty lagers. And even over the past 5-10 years more craft breweries opening knowing they need to produce high quality lagers in order to compete. One example of a new local ‘brewery’ is Trauger Brewing which produces their beer at Goblet Brewing (a Gypsy brewing operation). The owner/brewer is Jeremy Myers and when I last spoke to him (annual Logjammin’ Lager beer festival in Philly) he was alternating between brewing at a brewery in Germany and brewing in PA; three-week stints in Germany. I discussed his Helles in a past NBW thread: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-190.676518/#post-7944262 Prost!
I’d say that my local beer seen is alright. The newer breweries put out some good stuff here and there. The older local ones are still consistently good. I can get fresh beers from Sierra Nevada, Deschutes, Lagunitas, etc any time I want. Endless options if I drive to Reno.
I think this (and the following paragraph I didn't quote) is a very interesting take. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing and feeling a little bit like Goldilocks. Let me 'splain... Tourism. Let me expand... If I am coming to the "great beer bar" in your area, and they have only stuff imported from places like my local craft beer bar does, then I am not going to think very highly of your "great beer bar." Note: mine will probably still be great So, trying to be brief, which you know isn't my forté... is there a balance of taps for getting the "best" local beer for tourists and those who want a good spot to get a variety of the local brewers' offerings while also giving the local beer geeks stuff to explore? Sort of rhetorical, somewhat unanswerable, and easily dependent on a variety of factors. (Note: no Sip left in the fridge, so can't join you today in a pour )
BKS Artisan Ales for stellar IPAs, and finally some consistent BA releases. Pivo Project, the lager side of their brewhouse, is also making some good lagers. Alma Mader for stellar lagers & barleywines, great IPAs, and solid BA releases. Pathlight for a great annual BA barleywine & stout. Boulevard for consistently slightly above average saison/farmhouse and other general styles. Stockyards Black IPA - year round availability and pretty good. I'm certain there are other good beers I missed, these are just the notables that I've latched onto over the years. It's good enough that I don't feel the need to visit the liquor store much anymore, but if I wanted to, I know I could find Narrow Gauge (great IPAs) and Perennial (great annual stout releases) in addition to the usual Prairie Artisan Ales (good to great stouts) and BCBS. Nine years ago (nearly to the day) that I joined this forum, I remember being envious of other beer markets. Now I can't help but think we're actually above average. The list above does not include the fact that Oak & Steel is now serving Side Project (top tier barleywines, stouts, and saisons) pretty consistently, or that those breweries are a morning drive away, along with Civil Life (good English style ales and cask beer) and Perennial.
Just went through this thread. I agree with @Roguer that SN distribution in CT sucks. I've been complaining about that on this site for a long time. I also think he's on spot about the Lager scene here. I'm a little jealous of @JackHorzempa in that regard. For IPA's I know exactly what IPA @Roguer speaks of that we drink like crazy here in this state. It is real good and always fresh, but variety is fun. @TheIPAHunter stopped me in my tracks saying he can buy Heady in Whole Foods. Like you don't have enough in CA! Enjoy. My nearest Whole Foods is about 45 minutes, but they are slowly moving towards breaking ground for one in my office's town. Beyond stores, I am close to and frequent three different small breweries. The beer ranges from great to middling, but randomly running into people you know makes up for the middling.
I think there is a balance. I don't think many craft beer bars (at least, near me, or that I've visited across the states) have much balance, however. If a bar had 75% locals (especially really good stuff), and 25% stuff from elsewhere, I'd be pretty happy with that. (Notwithstanding the point that the core customer base has to be locals, not visitors, so ensuring they cater to ensuring you're not getting your own locals as a visitor isn't a good business model - in other words, my beer scene should be more about me than it is about you, no offense ). But I don't think they're considering so much that selection, as they are availability and cost - and so they lack any such balance. Plus, there's a great selling point in, "We feature only locals!" (one of my nearby spots, a really great spot, only has CT offerings on tap). But it doesn't automatically make it a better craft beer bar.
Craft beer scene is bustling and strong in and around Boston! Just about every bar now has some craft beer offerings.
I travel to Virginia and Pennsylvania regularly for my beer purchases. My favorite breweries don’t distribute to Maryland. I also really don’t care for any Maryland brewery.
I won't disagree with that, and I did overstate my case a little bit, but it's a forum thread I will reword (or adjust, maybe) slightly - are you sure you are the real target audience for your local establishments? Is the person, like you, wanting to try that new thing from who-knows-where, the person who is at the bar* every week ordering a few with dinner? Or is it the guy who wants to have a couple local beers they know they like on tap and maybe an occasional "outside" offering, none/maybe one of which they can get at the Applebees, warranting the higher prices? I think you answered this well enough, just wanted to restate given the quote. And in the end, I agree there is a balance, and I think a decent "good beer bar" is probably 50/50 but could go to 60/40 on the local side. But both of our opinions might depend on whether your locals are more production-based or not. Seeing the latest Port City beer on tap is always interesting to me at my "better" beer bar b/c it's likely their latest seasonal. Having Optimal Wit available at a random restaurant is also nice, but I am with you in not wanting my "good place" to be mostly my local breweries' flagships. But, am I their target audience? *So yeah, I sorta focused on bars, but I do think the retail space isn't that different.
