Looking for more info on “foeder conditioned”

I’m with you brother! I had a foeder conditioned lager from one of my favorite breweries a couple months ago and fell in love with the flavor. I’ve noticed more and more breweries are putting out foeder conditioned stuff. By my best understanding, the finished beer is rested in an “oak vessel”, which is called a foeder. Sounds way more simple than it actually is I’m sure but from my limited research and the descriptions I’ve read of the few beers I’ve tried, this is the easy explanation. All I know is I’m going to keep trying them. Cheers

 

I wonder about “conditioning” too. My understanding is that most ferment in stainless and are then is lagered in the foeder.

I’m always skeptical of foeder lagers cause a lot of times the oak comes off as an off flavor to me but I really enjoy my local places. If you’re ever in south jersey stop by Tonewood. They usually have woodland lager their foeder pale lager they also make a smoked version

 

Jesse, “foeder conditioned” in brewing has mostly been done for the production of mixed fermentation beers (e.g., Belgian styles like Lambic, Gueze, Flanders Red, etc.) via American craft breweries. The oak vessel they purchase are akin to those use in wine making (e.g., oaked chardonnay). Tired Hands uses foeders a lot for mixed fermentation Saison (or similar) beers.

I took a tour of Pilsner Urquell and saw their cellar brewery where they fermented in wooden open fermentation tanks but they conditioned (lagered) in large wooden barrels that were lined with pitch (i.e., the lagering beer did not touch the wood).

Cheers!

P.S. Below is a photo of foeders like those used at Tired Hands:



https://bisonbrew.com/foeders/

 

The foeders that I have seen have been open-top, hence the use by mixed-fermentation breweries since wild yeast in the air is encouraged to go swimming. Do you know if the ones like you pictured have a top? I'm guessing they do if being used for conditioning vessels, otherwise bugs of all types could get into the beer.

Bell's purchased a foeder from Stroh' s when that brewery was liquidated, and it has been reconditioned and reconstructed, I think I saw it at the Kalamazoo small-batch brewery, but maybe it was at the production brewery in Galesburg. It's about 6' tall and 12-14 feet in diameter if I remember correctly. To my knowledge it has not yet been used.

Edit: I recently had a beer that was listed as "foeder conditioned" but I can't recall what beer it was. I'll look in my notes.

 

Traditionally, US brewers would have used the phrase "Aged (or Lagered) In the Wood" but, of course, the modern US "craft" brewer needs a foreign sounding term to help sell the beer.

Here's Christian Feigenspan's cellar in Newark, NJ circa 1930s.

Yeah, the Detroit Stroh brewery closed in 1985 and some of their cypress fermentation tanks (no US brewer ever called them "foeders" from what I've ever read whether they were vertical or horizontal - "casks", "vats" or "tanks", etc., were the typical terms) seen below, circa 1950-70s...

...were dismantled and put into storage in an area warehouse. In the '50s, they had 140 of them in their Stockhouse #6 according to ads.

It wasn't until the 2010 that John Stroh III gave them to Bell's after a lunch with John Mallett.
Bell's Brewery obtains 100-year-old wooden barrels from Stroh's, part of intriguing nod to Michigan beer history

 

I remember reading that article now that you bring it up. And I think I know the section of the brewery where these (I hadn't remembered that there was more than one) are to be reconstructed, but I can't recall if they were in place when I toured the brewery 3-4 years ago. I still think I saw saw one in the Kzoo brewery, but.....

 

Threes was one of the early (US) adopters to practice this on lagers, by ripping on Vliet

• Kicking and Screaming – Oak aged Pilsner
• Short Fuse – Oak aged Smoked Helles
• Far Between – Oak aged Festbier

Previous thread touched on this as well, if interested in circling back:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...-brewers-turn-back-the-clock-on-lager.649301/

 

I think the beer that I was trying to recall was Katy from 2nd Shift in St. Louis. https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24428/80870/ It was a very good beer, and I think the brewery had other wild ales that likely were also conditioned in foeders (I saw foeders and barrels off to the side of the taproom). They put some of their beers in cans, so maybe this one as well as the other sours if you want to trade for them.

I also recently has a beer from Threes Brewing that was cited above by @M-Fox24, so that could also be the one that I was trying to remember. It was in a can and should be available for trade too.

 

From abroad the rising popularity of 'foeders' in the last few years among US breweries seems largely a result of having a vocal, local producer in 'Foeder Crafters of America', early pionieering mixed-fermentation brewers as New Belgium, Russian River (?), .. using them coupled with the everything goes craft mentality and interest of earlier techniques (without quest for their historic use, rather utilising them icw modern skills and preferences) stoking the fire. Good on them.

My take:
a foeder is a large (~650l up) wooden vessel employed by among wine and beer makers and used to hold liquid during either fermentation and/or maturation. specific characteristics are its low (wood) surface to (liquid) volume ratio and (historically/commonly) use of denser wood varities compared with smaller barrels. foeders exist in varying shapes and orientation, as well as open-top and closed examples. their relative longlivity means they often have more affordances/amenities than a simple filling holes - in line with other vessels/tanks of this size. until recently (and outside belgium & france) these vessels were generally refered to as vats.

 

The Strohs fermenters are in the Galesburg production brewery, in their own room with positive pressure with filtered air. There are 3, and those are lined with a modern coating. Not sure what was used.

I've had a beer fermented in one of the Andrews Ale, which was a Bitter made with Chevallier malt from Crisp Matings. It was delicious. They made a Bock, IIRC, but I was told it never was sold, so it probably hit the drain. I think they are too busy with other projects to dedicate time to brewing for those fermenters. They were pictures of ~10 more 800 bbl fermenters on a freighter going under the Mackinaw Bridge, for example.

All of Bell's wild and sours are done in downtown Kzoo. I've seen the Foeders there. Those are what you see in wineries in size and shape.

Edit
http://www.bellsbeer.com/news/bells-brews-first-ale-100-year-old-wooden-fermenters

 

I've seen foeder lagers gain a lot of popularity over the last couple of years and I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the new "thing" that more breweries pick up on. It's funny too because people were lamenting the lack of craft lagers and I've seen a boom in these foeder lagers. The ones I've seen look like large upright wooden barrels with a big metal door on the front.

 

Interesting article from the website. I had not seen it, and it looks like it may be from 2015. I was unaware of the Andrews Ale too. Thanks for the info.

 

I think that your take is correct. The low wood ratio should contribute a very subtle flavor as well as some tannins; just a little nudge, as opposed to barrel aging.

 

Hopewell Brewing in Chicago has a rotating selection of Foeder-aged beers: Bock, Pils, Pale Ale, and Saison. There might be others, but those are the main ones I’ve seen. The Bock and Pils are great. There are very subtle vanilla and wood notes that complement the base beers.
There was an interesting article on Vinepair last year highlighting some brewers using this method.

 

Properly made they can be quite enjoyable.

 

One of the breweries in my town has a couple, and they generally use them for sours/wilds. They let the beer sit for a year or so, drain it out, clean it, and refill it. Over time the wood develops characters from the various beers that have been in it over the years, becoming distinct from any other foeder.

 

The foeders that I have seen at Tired Hands had tops (i.e., they were not open).

As has been discussed previously in this thread in the past wooden vessels in American brewing would have not been referred to via the term "foeder". Maybe they do in European brewing?

FWIW I have always associated foeders with the wine industry.

Cheers!