Marris + Munich APA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by NorCalKid, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (175) Jan 10, 2018 California

    I’m kicking around an idea for a simple APA, with fore mentioned malts as my only base for Centennial hops. 85/15% blend. Anyone have experience with this combo ( malts & hops ) Imperials: Flagship(Chico) is the yeast of choice.
     
  2. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,389) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Maris Otter blended with either Vienna or Munich works well.
     
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  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Why not just make it all MO?
     
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  4. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (175) Jan 10, 2018 California

    That’s what I was initially thinking, just a smash beer but was wondering if any addition of Munich in the grist(15%) would give the body a little boost.
     
  5. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    I know that I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I find Munich to be inappropriate in hop-forward beers. The first reason is that I think it clashes with most New World hops, especially grapefruity ones like Centennial or Cascade. The other reason is that it makes the hop character fall off much more quickly, due to oxidative processes that the malt engenders.
     
    #5 EvenMoreJesus, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  6. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Marris otter alone would be my choice. I usually had a little Vienna or Munich to grists that are lighter and less characterful like plain 2row malt. Marris otter is wonderful on its own and will go great with the centennial.
     
  7. scottakelly

    scottakelly Zealot (510) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Nothing wrong with adding some Munich per se but I would go light with it. Too much will cover up the MO. MO should add plenty of body on its own but if you really want more I would probably just go with a low lovibond crystal malt.
     
  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    I find that the higher beta glucan content of oats will accomplish this, as well, but if you're really stuck on a crystal-type malt, I'd suggest dextrin/carapils. Even though it's not technically a crystal type malt, it will leave your beer with more residual extract. Some interesting reading on why:

    http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/understanding-carapils/
     
  9. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    C-10-20 are your friends.
     
  10. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Oats are gonna make it harder to clear. I would use catapults or c10 like has been suggested.
     
  11. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Never had a problem with that. Maybe some chill haze, but I wouldn't know as my hoppy beers are hazy from the hops as well.
     
  12. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    *carapils not catapults lmao. Trebuchets are the superior siege weapon anyway.
     
  13. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (319) Jan 12, 2014 Utah
    Beer Trader

    And if you’re gonna go low lovibond crystal go German or Belgian.
     
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  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,389) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Can you explain the oxidative process?
     
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  15. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (175) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Totally appreciate the advice. Ima RAHR/GP all day every day...(shame) never used marris dude. Thanks! SMaSH it is!
     
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  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    GP won’t be too far off MO. GP is a little sweeter
     
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  17. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

  18. boddhitree

    boddhitree Zealot (504) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    M.O. has a wonderful toasty flavor. Munich malt tends to lean quite strongly toward caramels. That's what gives Märzens their chewy, carameliness. But at 15%, it will taste good, yet it will cover up the toasty flavors. I suggest 5% tops of Munich malt to add a lighter touch.
     
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  19. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (175) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Thanks. Just wrote up my brew log. I’m dropping the Munich. I don’t wanna detract from the marris, seeing that I’ve never used it.
     
  20. boddhitree

    boddhitree Zealot (504) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Maris Otter is a wonderful malt... toast is a great descriptor. Golden Promise is also good.

    I forgot where I go this, but somewhere online I got a tasting comparison of the basic Pale malts.

    • 2-row Bready. Very light. Very slightly sweet with a smooth light graininess. Very faint twang. Serviceable if a bit nondescript. It's amazing how you can just tell this is the basemalt for a lot of commercial beers. It tastes "familiar."
    • Maris otter Toasty on the nose. Much nuttier than 2-row. Slightly sweeter and more caramelly flavor. Toasty sweetness comes through. Toasted bread.
    • Golden promise. Very mild aroma. Flavor is slightly sweet. Cracker sort of breadiness. Grainy. Sweetest of the six. Pleasant.
    • Pearl Slight sweetness and caramel on the nose. Faint "green" almost vegetal aroma. Not unpleasant though. Medium caramel flavor with a smoother mouthfeel than the others. Sweetness carries through.
    • Optic Very little nose. Slight oat aroma. Flavor leans towards the sweet grain side. Maybe a little rougher than the others. Almost grassy. I like it though.
    • Halcyon Light nuttiness in the aroma. Grain is more present. Subdued caramel. Maybe a bit like the crusts from white bread. Really clean. Light nuttiness is nice. Very mild.
    • The three that stood out for me as the most distinct from each other were Maris Otter, 2-Row, and Optic. The Optic smelled like a clean barn (not barnyard though). Good horse feed. A definite rough graininess that I could see complimenting some styles very well. Maris Otter was definitely the most toasty of the 6 with some deeper more rich flavors. 2-row was, like I said, kind of "familiar" tasting.
    Again, caveat: I neither wrote this nor can take credit for it. Likely from Homebrew Talk. Nonetheless, living in Germany and being able to source English malts, my favs are OM, GP and Halcyon. I never use 2-row.
     
    #20 boddhitree, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (957) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Interesting comparison, to be sure, but all of those are 2-row types of barley. Maris Otter, Golden Promise, Pearl, Optic, and Halcyon are simple different varietals of 2-row.
     
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  22. boddhitree

    boddhitree Zealot (504) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    True dat. Those are British malts, the 2-row tends to be generic American.
     
  23. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Nothing is not boring than American 2 row besides maybe nitting
     
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  24. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (752) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Mostly AC Metcalf and Harrington, etc', but there are some fairly new North American barley varieties that deserve more attention...like Full Pint. I think the malting here is starting to be taken more seriously, too. Anyway, I like a >2.5 L toast on almost any variety...fwiw
     
  25. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (301) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Even Pilsner?
     
  26. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (752) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    By definition, I think a Pilsner malt must be ~2L or less...and it's not really a variety of barley, but rather a very lightly kilned "type" of base malt
     
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  27. boddhitree

    boddhitree Zealot (504) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    In my own home brew of IPAs or Pale Ales, I often, in addition to Pale malts, drop in up to 25% Bohemian Floor Pils malted or Weyermann's various versions of Pils malts, or Belgian malts like Brewferm or Castle. Since I'm in Germany, I have no access to 'Märican malts, but when I compare what I make vs. Stateside commercial brews I've access to, I have to admit I like mine better because the different malts add more flavors and hence balance to hop-forward beers. In fact, I tend to add Munich up to 20% and I have to say, it's a wonderful complement to fruity or piney hops.
     
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  28. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (752) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I don't think I could discern 25% Pils (or NA 2 row for that matter) in a beer with 20% Munich. If I use Pilsner malt in an IPA, it's because I'm out of a more flavorful base malt like GP, MO, or NA Pale Ale malt.
     
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  29. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,389) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

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