Melanoidin Comparisons

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by OldBrewer, Dec 15, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 2 of 5
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I bet @TheBeerery will be happy to share some recipes. But I doubt that you (or anyone) would be able to replicate the appearance of those beers just by using his grain bills. It's about process.
     
    #21 VikeMan, Dec 16, 2017
    SFACRKnight and hopfenunmaltz like this.
  2. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Ayinger only makes 1 Pils.
     
    #22 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
  3. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Cara and Brumalz are malted barley, so those meet the RHG.
     
    #23 hopfenunmaltz, Dec 16, 2017
    OldBrewer and TheBeerery like this.
  4. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Right. Process process process. Cara and brumalz( Germans name for Munich malts) are still all malted barley. So it’s still RHG compliant it’s simply just Kilned malt.

    Bitburger per say is pretty simple. 20-25% Munich the rest pils malt. 30-35 ibu perle at 60 minutes. Cold ferment 48f with 2206.

    Recipes are simple. Execution is paramount.

    So. More often than not ( in Germany with macro breweries) you get your melanoidan from malts and not decoction. Which ties back to my first post of it being a red herring.
     
    #24 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
    OldBrewer and Crusader like this.
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    #25 JackHorzempa, Dec 16, 2017
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  6. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    #26 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
  7. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    The Ayinger fits with what the guide Otto said about their brewing, as the Pilsner uses malts that they stock.
     
    #27 hopfenunmaltz, Dec 16, 2017
    TheBeerery likes this.
  8. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Thank you. Since the process is critical, can you say any more about your process? Also do you have a recipe for Paulaner Pilsner (not the wheat beer)? It is one of my favorites. Also the other beers that you illustrated above.

    Thank you.
     
    #28 OldBrewer, Dec 16, 2017
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    #29 JackHorzempa, Dec 16, 2017
    OldBrewer, TheBeerery and SFACRKnight like this.
  10. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    #30 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I'm glad you cleared that up :slight_smile:...melanoidins in your beer don't care which process they came from.
     
    #31 GreenKrusty101, Dec 16, 2017
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  12. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    That still doesn't mean that melanoidins could taste different depending on how they were developed.

    But I still don't have an answer to my original question: just HOW much melanoidin, relatively, is in each of these specialty malts - melanoidin, aromatic, Vienna and Munich (say light)? I was not able to find any source for this information. There seems to be a lot of general descriptions of these malts, but nothing specific.

    I could experiment, but I was hoping that someone already had some general experience with this.

    Recipes could help, but it's like pulling teeth :-)
     
    #32 OldBrewer, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  13. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    I gave you the bitburger recipe. I gave you all the cara ratios. What am I missing?

    There are plenty of sources for this stuff. But they are in professional text books and professionals. Kunze and Nariß are great resources.
     
    #33 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  14. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota


    Not really they are different. Sample a PU next to a Weihenstephaner Pils. Much different.... Even though I know you were just being sassy.
     
    #34 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Just tossing another red herring out there :slight_smile:...this controversy has been around for awhile...whether a decoction mash makes any sense in this day and age is debatable...even though some would say it doesn't matter because most modern Pilsner malts are well-modified and can actually be damaged by decoction mashes. Your palate is the deciding organ...and one could make the argument that Hacker-Pschorr's Pilsner is superior to either of the examples you cited. Cheers
     
    #35 GreenKrusty101, Dec 16, 2017
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  16. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Oh they are all good, I won't turn down a German beer.

    Not trying to further a debate just siting examples. Like I said I have an automated decoction vessel, It has its time and place (in the corner) I kid...Kinda. :stuck_out_tongue:
     
    #36 TheBeerery, Dec 16, 2017
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  17. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    As you know, the better recipes, like the detailed steps in your processes, consist of more than just one ingredient. There are a lot of recipes online, but it's hard to determine whether or not they are credible. I've had some that turned out good, and others that did not. Thus I was trusting your own personal experience, as you seemed to know a lot about different pilsners and how to finesse them. But thank you, I get the message and will look through some of these resources.
     
    #37 OldBrewer, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  18. jeebeel

    jeebeel Zealot (667) Jun 17, 2003 Texas

    Thanks for all your posts in this thread. Very informative and interesting, now I just need one of those beers in your photos...
     
    #38 jeebeel, Dec 16, 2017
    TheBeerery likes this.
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I believe @OldBrewer is asking if there is a resource that lists melanoidin content of the malts you listed.
     
    #39 SFACRKnight, Dec 17, 2017
    OldBrewer likes this.
  20. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Thanks, SFACRKnight. That's exactly what I've been asking all along. I found a source for the Kunze book, but the Narziss book is all in German, and both books are about 700 pages long. Looks like I've got a lot of reading to do - and learn German - to find my answer :-)
     
    #40 OldBrewer, Dec 17, 2017
    SFACRKnight likes this.
Page 2 of 5
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.