Northeast Haze through a microscope

@djuhnk have you/can you show a pic of what a filtered IPA looks like under a microscope as a control?
Great post!

 

Vinnie Cilurzo at Russian River essentially invented the American Double IPA at Blind Pig purposely to cover up the potential flaws in the beer from his brewing equipment. Turns out, people loved the beer.

And of course there's lambics...

It's entirely possible the first brewers to start this hazy IPA trend finished brewing the beer too young (or skipped a step here or there due to time constraints), tasted it, and realized, "Wow, this beer looks like shit but sure doesn't taste like it!"

 

Weedy, for your consideration below is a tweet from Jamil Zainasheff on the topic of murky hoppy beers:

Jamil Zainasheff ‎@mrmalty

I'm sorry, you who think this is acceptable beer have lost your minds. This overly yeasty crap is offensive.

7:58 PM - 1 Mar 2016

http://beer.kaedrin.com/2016/03/i-drink-your-milkshake-ipa.html

I have read where other BAs have listened to podcasts where Jamil did not have favorable words when discussing murky hoppy beers. Below is one example of a post:

“The reason there is so much butthurt is because ppl like Jamil are publicly calling those brewers lousy brewers even though they are producing exactly what they want. Probably 1/3 of all Jamil's listeners think he can do no wrong so they jump on the boards to tell everyone how smart they are and everyone brewing these beers are just making bad beers.”

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/northeast-pales-ipa-dipa.319817/page-20#post-4585137

Cheers!

 

That color is all late additions and the yeast not being dropped or filtered. I'd suspect they don't bother much with crashing it until it gets to the bright tank which saves a few days time on the cellaring schedule.
I can't see much cellar work being done beyond dry hopping and drawing off yeast for a re-pitch.

 

Nice post. I feel less bad when I see photos of hoof-hearted beers, and think that it looks like dirty pond water.

 

@djuhnk : you sir are the man.

 

Not sure if people have referenced this but here is a video with John Kimmich of The Alchemist where at 2:30 he pours a Heady right off the canning line and it's pale gold and very cloudy. At 4:50 he pours an 8 month old Heady and it is a darker amber color and very clear. I'd be curious if anyone has pics of 6 month or older can of Tree House, Hoof Hearted, or Tired Hands and if it cleared up at all.

 

Filtered IPA looks like nothing under a microscope. Maybe the very rare yeast cell that made it through the filter but that's it. To get the amount of yeast on a slide like that, you have millions of cells per milliliter.

 

okay, got it

 

would the cells normally appear green without the presence of chlorophyll from the hops? this could be an answer to the "how are these beers so damned hoppy?" question if the green contains essential oils from the hops.

 

Who Farted seems amateurish. Ill throw some Trillium on a cell counter on Monday.

 

If I saw someone using Chico ale yeast and it looked like that, I might agree... There wouldn't be a benefit to having cloudy beer in that case (if my theories about why these yeast strains behave this way is correct at least). However, if the yeast in suspension serves a purpose, then I really can't see why someone would get upset about it. I also think that it is up to the brewer to decide if their beer is flawed. The brewers making these beers are very well trained and have a lot of experience. Obviously, they see the yeast in suspension. They have a reason for it being there. The beer looks and tastes the way it is supposed to taste. IMO, that means the beer doesn't have a flaw, but rather it is exactly the way that beer is supposed to be... It is comparable to Pilsner Urquell... Full of diacetyl... Not a flaw. It is there for a reason (and I don't drink it because of that reason ) Now, fitting into a BJCP guideline, that is a different story. These beers don't have a guideline, nor should they need one! The beer is good... Enjoy it!

 

Weedy, I personally drink and enjoy hazy/murky hoppy beers.

For your reading pleasure a recent post in the New Beer Sunday thread for a Tired Hands beer: http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-576.392963/#post-4574046

Cheers!

 

If it's yeast that is making these beers cloudy/murky, don't they give you gas or possibly diarrhea? Possibly how Hoof Hearted came up with the name?

 

i have not experienced this, although it does make logical sense.

 

Is their any weight into the thought that HH is cutting corners (not taking time to clarify and getting them out of the tanks and canned ASAP) to ride the wave of the fad and attempting to create the hazy murky IPAs, while IMO creating harsh, astringent facsimiles? I only use them as an example b/c of Everybody Wants Some almost burned going down and gave me terrible heartburn. I've also had some Treehouse and Trillium's murkier/hazy offerings and didn't experience this.

Not trying to hate on anyone, just a serious question and if it could be a reason as to why some breweries are trying that murky/hazy beers. Time = money

 

Some of the more hardcore BAs will disagree with me here, but if you're going out to a bar I think a magnifying glass is acceptable

 

Nice idea OP. Great thread

 

That is a certainty for me with yeasty Homebrew. I would drink one of these beers with trepidation.

 

Hop oils do not cause "haze" in the way people think they do. HT or Julius isn't hazy because of oil saturation. What causes these types of haze is proteins and yeast bound with polyphenols from dryhopping. You can achieve the same level of haze using highly flocculative yeasts as much as using low flocculators. Yeast choice actually has little to do with appearance when the processes behind these beers are so similar.

When you take a protein rich beer and add lots of hops to it, you will get haze. In the presence of yeast, you will get an even hazier look. It's really simple. And when you are not filtering or centrifuging, you are keeping all that stuff in suspension until it has a chance to settle out.

As for flavor, if we really cared about hop oils and hop flavor, we would at least try to remove suspended yeast and polyphenol. When you look at GABF IPA winners you'll notice that the vast majority are relatively clear, because the criteria on which they are based includes things like "hop definition" and clarity of flavors... all of which are hard to achieve with turbid beers. However, these NE style IPA's have their own unique character and people have become accustomed to that flavor/feel.