Oxygen Paradox For Dummies

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jake_Ramrod, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Can someone enlighten me on the negative effects of oxygen being introduced into the wort and how to avoid it? More important, how to avoid it when dry hopping, taking gravity readings, etc.? Everyone on here seems to be very cognizant of every single chance of oxygen being absorbed into the wort, but at the same time tends to dry hop heavily as well as recommending to take multiple gravity readings. My simple head hurts thinking about this.
     
  2. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    As far as the wort goes, forgive me for being anal because I know what you mean, the wort will be boiled and will "lose" oxygen during the boil so you're fine there. Then when you chill and pitch the yeast you'll actually want to aerate to introduce oxygen to help the yeast ferment that wort fully. I think you know this already but I just wanted to be clear on that.

    For dry hopping I think most will tell you to just be gentle. It will depend on when you dry hop too. I've been testing dry hopping during fermentation and I think, because CO2 is still be produced, I'm somewhat safe when dropping hops into the beer at that stage. If fermentation is complete however, I would be even more careful to gently add your dry hops. I use a muslin bag or even a nylon stocking and gently lower my dry hops in so as not to splash.

    Another scenario I actually just did a few hours ago - I'm dry hopping in a corny keg. I put my dry hops into a sanitized nylon stocking and dropped that in the sanitized keg first. Then I siphoned my fermented batch of beer into the keg, closed it off and burped it a few times with CO2 in hopes of getting rid of any oxygen in the keg. (In a few days, I'll being performing a closed transfer to another keg which should preserve a lot of the hop aroma from escaping during the transfer to my serving keg).

    Negative effects of introducing oxygen to your finished beer could be a stale taste like wet cardboard. Tons online about this. John Palmer is a good place to start.

    Not sure if this helps but I think the TLDR version is to just be gentle and try not to splash your beer around.

    Edit: Sorry forgot about taking gravity readings. Pretty much the same thing though - I use a sanitized turkey baster and gently submerge it and slowly suck in what I need for the hydrometer. I take the reading and then drink the sample. It's good to prepare/sanitize any bungs/tubing you need to cap your fermenter before taking your sample so you don't take time prepping that stuff while your fermenter is open.
     
    #2 Curmudgeon, Nov 28, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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  3. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Thanks for the run-down. I certainly understand being gentle and obviously trying not to splash the wort. However, when dry hopping after fermentation is complete, aren't you essentially releasing the CO2 in the headspace when you take the airlock off and allowing oxygen in? Or, do you think that the wort is still offgassing enough to push the oxygen back out again before any of it absorbs into the wort? Also, the same question applies to the oft-recommended gravity readings. Aren't we simply allowing oxygen in at that time?

    Slightly off-topic, but I just bought a new fermentor with a spout (Speidel 7.9 gallon). Is it possible to attach a hose to the spout with a ball lock keg connector and then run it straight into my corny after purging with CO2? That seems like a good way to keep oxygen out during transfer, also.
     
  4. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

     
  5. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    Those are good points and I still struggle with the concept. I believe, like you mentioned, that even when fermentation is "complete" the beer will still give off some CO2. And, if we're gentle enough, we won't contribute too much oxygen while performing all these tasks. I also think that it's inevitable as a homebrewer that we'll introduce some oxygen into our beers. There are some nice tricks out there to mitigate this though. I'm still learning.

    Not sure if this is what you're talking about but this video is a pretty good example of one type of closed transfer. I don't have this set up yet. I only do closed from keg to keg. I need to find the proper quick disconnects to do carboy to keg like this guy:

     
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  6. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    No, I fermented in a 6 gallon glass carboy. And here's the weak point in my process currently. I use an auto-siphon (which can be bad for introducing oxygen into beer) to siphon from the open glass carboy into an open (but filled with CO2) corny keg. May be silly but I pump the auto siphon a few times within my corny keg to try to fill the siphon with some CO2 before I siphon the beer. Haha, does that work? I don't know, probably not but I try.
     
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  7. KCUnited

    KCUnited Savant (1,038) Nov 11, 2014 Arizona
    Trader

    I picked up a Speidel 5.3 gallon fermenter and used it for the first time a couple weeks ago on an IPA. I unscrewed the top, added my fermentation hops via muslin bag, screwed it back on. I kegged it four days later by running a hose from the spigot straight through the keg opening after hitting it with CO2. I'm not picking up any noticeable oxidation from it. There may be a way to tighten down my process so less oxygen is introduced, but the Speidel alone cut it down noticeably by being able to use the spigot for gravity readings and transferring to the keg compared to the carboy I had been using for fermentation.
     
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

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  9. chrunck

    chrunck Devotee (329) Jun 12, 2013 New Mexico

    My thinking is that since CO2 is heavier than air, it should be reasonably safe to open the lid as long as you're gentle.

    I'm certainly no expert though, I'm only on my second batch and haven't tasted my first batch yet.
     
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  10. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    When you open your primary the CO2 is not released. The airlock insures the pressure of the interior (CO2) is just about identical to the outside air. When you open the lid the air/C02 will start to "diffuse" (mix), but it will be at a relatively slow rate. Remember, the pressures are identical so it will take a while . . . and no I don't really know how long. But if you're prepared and work fast it doesn't seem to have major consequences. When you toss in a hop bag you are displacing CO2, again work fast and no real problem. When you insert a winethief you introduce air at least at the volume of the tool . . . you displace CO2 when it enters, air fills the void when you remove. I do this every brew cycle (usually twice). Same when you pull dry hops, air enters in equal volume of the hop bag. This isn't ideal, but homebrewers have been doing this forever. Unless you have some professional-type equipment there no way around this.

    I use an auto-siphon to transfer from bucket to keg. You might want to try connecting a liquid QD to the siphon tubing and transfer through the diptube (fill from the bottom with lid closed). My keg is mostly pure CO2 when I start, do a ΒΌ turn on the PRV to dump pressure . . . this will minimize air diffusing into the open area of the lid. It takes a smidgen longer, but seems to work well. I've transferred from glass carboy to keg with CO2 . . . it's fairly labor intensive for the benefit gained. Purging your auto siphon with CO2 might actually benefit, certainly will do no harm.
     
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