Question on mash water/sparge ratio

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by HokiesandBeer, Jul 3, 2015.

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  1. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Hey everyone, so tomorrow I'll be doing my first AG BIAB and I have a question on how much water I'll be using for my sparge. For some reason I had it in my head that I would be using only a few quarts to sparge with and the majority of my water would be used to mash with. So I went over and used the Mash & Sparge Water Calculator at brew365 and came up with these numbers:

    Total water: 9.18
    Mash: 3.91 (I suppose this is 4 gallons of water I'll be adding my BIAB to for the 60 mins)
    Sparge: 5.28 (I'm guessing this is the amount of water I'll be pouring over my grains once I remove the bag to extract all the additional sugars etc..)

    I'm making a 5.25 gallon batch, with a 1 hour boil and I'll be using 11.75 lbs of grains with a strike temp of 164 and target mash temp of 152.


    I found this in Palmer
    "Typically, 1.5 times as much water is used for sparging as for mashing (e.g., 8 lbs. malt at 2 qt./lb. = 4 gallon mash, so 6 gallons of sparge water). "

    I guess I'm just wondering if sparging water volumes are universal depending on whether or not you're doing an AG in a mash tun or if you're just doing a BIAB?

    Sorry if this is a dumb question....
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sparge water volumes are not even universal between mash tun brewers/batches. Yes, the total water needed will be very similar. But the water to grist ratio is variable, so the sparge water needed to make up the total is variable. With mash tuns, ratios between 1-2 quarts per pound are typical. With BIAB, some people mash in the entire volume of water, with no sparge at all. I'm pretty sure that's how the original BIAB brewing was done, with people later adding a sparge step in pursuit of higher mash efficiency. IMO, if you're going to sparge with BIAB, you've removed one of the main reasons (simplicity) for doing BIAB.
     
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  3. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Exactly! Haha that is what I was thinking but my friend (who is a much more experienced HB than myself said otherwise.)

    I had originally intended to just mash with the entire volume of water to begin with but he talked me out of it. If I wanted to just do a mash using the entire volume of water...no sparging...how do I determine how much water I should start with?
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You need to account for grain absorption, hop absorption, boil off, kettle deadspace (if applicable), and siphon transfer loss (if applicable). Software makes this easier. BrewCipher is a free integrated brewing excel workbook. And many people use the Beersmith program (not free). Add these volumes to the amount of wort you want going into the fermenter.

    If you're not ready to use software and want to compute manually, here are BrewCipher's defaults, which might work for you until you have determined the values you get in your system...

    Grain Absorption: 0.12 gallons per pound
    Pellet Hop Absorption: 0.025 gallons per pound
    Boil Off: 1.24 gallons per hour
     
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  5. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Thanks Vikeman. So if I have 11.75 pounds of grains I can estimate that I'll be losing 1.41 gallons + another 1.24 gallon due to boil off during my 60 minute mash time?

    So in the first 60 mins I'll be losing roughly 2.65 gallons. I'd imagine that I would lose another 1.24 gallons in my 60 minute wort boil where I'll be adding my hop additions, etc... So overall I'd be losing roughly under 4 gallons of water. If I want to hit my target of about 5.25 gallons post boil then I should be aiming for around 9.15 gallons of water to begin. Is that correct?

    Question. Since I technically won't be boiling the mash for the 60 minutes will I still actually lose that 1.24 gallons? Or will I only lose that 1.24 gallon during my 60 minute wort boil when I'm adding the hops?

    I hope this makes sense. Thanks again you're being a huge help.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Boi-loff only applies to the boil time. You can safely ignore evaporation that might happen during the mash.
     
  7. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Great. Thanks Vikeman.
     
  8. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    FWIW I lost closer to .15-.18 gal/lb when I did BIAB. This piece will depend on how long you're willing to let the bag drain after the mash. I was not very patient.
     
  9. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    I usually see 1 gallon boil off per hour on my system. Point to the OP being don't freak out if your results aren't 1.24 gallons per hour. They easily could be but ultimately the goal is to boil off at least 8% (about 0.6 gallons on your batch) of your total boil volume over the course of your entire boil. More is OK but less is negative from a flavor and aroma standpoint.

    Some general numbers (I don't know your system specifics)

    1.5 quarts of water x 11.75 pounds of grain = 4.4 gallons of strike water (make it 4.5)
    11.75 pounds of grain x 0.125 absorption per pound = 1.47 gallons (assume 1.5)
    = 3 gallons of 1st runnings collected

    1 gallon per hour boil off x 1 hour = 1 gallon
    maybe 0.25 gallons of dead space in the kettle
    maybe 0.5 gallons of transfer / hop absorption loss
    maybe 0.25 gallons of loss for cooling expansion
    = 2 gallons of loss on the boil and transfer side

    If you are looking to brew a 5 gallon batch size, this is a rough estimate of volumes...

    4.5 gallons of strike water
    - 1.5 gallons grain absorption
    = 3 gallons of 1st runnings

    sparge with 4 gallons of water
    = 4 gallons of 2nd runnings collected

    7 gallons of total runnings collected
    - 1 gallon boil off
    - 0.25 gallons (4%) cooling expansion loss
    - 0.25 gallons dead space
    - 0.5 gallons transfer loss
    = 5 gallons into the fermenter

    You will lose anywhere between say 0.25 - 1 gallon between the fermenter and final packaging (depending on dry hopping amounts and how good you are at transferring) so that leaves you with anywhere between 4 - 4.75 gallons of final packaged product.

    Now what I'd do is use a 6.5 gallon fermenter, a 5.625 gallon batch size (simply up the sparge water volume from 4 gallons to 4.625 gallons), and end up with 5 gallons of final product in a keg or in bottles.
     
    #9 koopa, Jul 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
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