Replies to ratings?

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Roybert, Jul 22, 2019.

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  1. Roybert

    Roybert Aspirant (270) Oct 2, 2014 Texas

    I would like to see BA/Untapped allow a space for replies to other user's ratings. I occasionally have an urge to engage with some of the ratings I see, and would like an option to do so. Would you see this option as valuable?
  2. RaulMondesi

    RaulMondesi Poo-Bah (2,089) Dec 11, 2006 California

    I guess your best option at the moment is to just BM that member? I dunno, I wouldn’t mind seeing what my thousands of fans would have to say about my reviews.
    Premo88, Junior, StoutSnob40 and 13 others like this.
  3. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Poo-Bah (1,794) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    I think allowing users to make a review free from open criticism is best. If folks get bashed then you will lose a lot of people, just my opinion.
  4. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,982) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    It's definitely on our features to consider list.
  5. dcotom

    dcotom Poo-Bah (2,274) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    Society Trader

    We've discussed this before. The consensus seems to be that nothing good can come of it. If you have something to say, write your own review.
    Your reviews are awesome. :wink:
    Premo88, TheGent, Shanex and 18 others like this.
  6. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,745) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    I fully agree. If I suck at reviews or others disagree they can PM me. I don't need to be publicly bashed over it. Perhaps have a button to respond to reviews but make it a PM that includes the name of the beer and your review of it.
    TheGent, Shanex, MNAle and 20 others like this.
  7. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Poo-Bah (1,794) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    I agree, once we allow open bashing or folks feel the need to make their review higher to avoid it then the reviews are worthless. If someone wants to talk about it they should just PM the person and ask to have a conversation then its private, etc.
    JohnnyHopps, TheGent, islay and 14 others like this.
  8. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,202) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    I totally agree with everyone saying that this is a horrible idea that absolutely no good can come of, but opens the gates to all sorts of bashing and trolling. Not to mention that it would terribly clutter up the review pages.
    NickSMpls, TheGent, Shanex and 22 others like this.
  9. spersichilli

    spersichilli Initiate (110) Apr 26, 2018 Florida

    You can do that on Untappd, but only to user’s you’re “friends” with
    Beer_Economicus, FBarber and Janeinma like this.
  10. rudzud

    rudzud Poo-Bah (6,991) Apr 28, 2010 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    Didn't unlikes get removed because that was abused? I can only imagine the abuse if people could actually comment on reviews.
    LloydDobler, TheGent, Shanex and 9 others like this.
  11. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,837) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Society Trader

    I'm not in favour of it.
    TheGent, LeRose, LuskusDelph and 6 others like this.
  12. colby600

    colby600 Zealot (548) Mar 24, 2015 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I can't imagine what good could come from questioning someone's impression of a beer. Most replies would be of a negative nature IMO. Is the OP of the review supposed to respond to the negative replies? Sounds like more work for the moderators.
    TheGent, LeRose, Ranbot and 8 others like this.
  13. MJSFS

    MJSFS Champion (831) Apr 22, 2015 Florida

    A reply function would absolutely discourage me from leaving a written review. Just look at Twitter. People don't respect other people's opinions, and the comment sections quickly devolve into an argument. Before long, Godwin's Law kicks in...
    TheGent, LeRose, LuskusDelph and 8 others like this.
  14. Milktoast75

    Milktoast75 Devotee (463) Oct 27, 2012 Wisconsin

    I post my reviews for public consumption not public debate. Agree or disagree, totally your opinion versus mine.
    Allowing members to post comments on someone’s reviews is just asking for unnecessary trouble.
    Perhaps each member would be able to allow comments if they so desire with “ do not allow comments” as the default setting.
  15. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (2,107) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Absolutely not. Every so-called "expert" will feel the need to chime in for myriad reasons. A review is simply one person's opinion, and it should be left as such. Cheers!
    LloydDobler, TheGent, Shanex and 11 others like this.
  16. rozzom

    rozzom Champion (824) Jan 22, 2011 New York

    Maybe this is discussed in a separate thread but how about allowing both upvoting and downvoting instead. So an articulate, detailed review floats to the top, and the "this helles is not as good as that IPA wot I had from Treehouse plus i'm not a fan of the style" review turds its way down to the bottom - without any actual comments/hurt feelings being required.
  17. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Poo-Bah (8,339) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Moderator Society Trader

    A number of years ago there was a short experiment with allowing "like" and "dislike" for reviews/ratings that seemed like a popularity contest and appeared to discourage people from wanting to participate. Maybe @Todd is willing to revisit again.
  18. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,068) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey

    I'd love to see an up/down voting system for the reviews again. I think it would be a good indicator of how that reviewer's opinion is viewed by the community as a whole.

    EDIT: and this an unpopular perspective, i'm sure; but just think: if there were a downvote button you could bury my comment! :wink::beer:

    Ah, so much this! There is one of those hardcore/15+ reviews a day poobah bros who crossposts his reviews at beer tastings, etc..they're like 19 words long and the same fucking thing on 11 different beers by the same brewery; not to mention the quality "I love pastry stouts, this DIPA tastes like perfume" perspective you mention. I'd probably break my mouse clicking down 98% of his reviews, :rofl: :rofl:
    #18 tzieser, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    Ranbot, Scrapss, Milktoast75 and 2 others like this.
  19. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (5,102) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. As long as it's not disparaging one of my exquisite and cunningly insightful reviews with one or two of those $10 words I throw in to show my inherent sophistication (on occasion), sometimes, kind of every so often -- when I review a beer, of course, and not responding to obscure forum posts -- designed to provoke provocations...such as this...

    You, you beer wanker, you...

    No more buttons! No more buttons!! No more buttons!!!

    #19 beergoot, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    TheGent, Scrapss, dcotom and 2 others like this.
  20. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,068) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey

    Hah! just watched Holy Grail last night. Good stuff.

    PS- I'll never downvote wit. Never. This is why @RaulMondesi is the best reviewer on BA (and it's not even close, really).
    beergoot likes this.
  21. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (5,102) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    I have to agree with those saying nothing good can come of allowing replies of any sort to reviews.

    My opinion is that reviews, while never totally objective, will be less biased without the added social media pressure of being like or unliked.

    If someone has a rave or a rant about a particular review of mine, I would rather receive the feedback by personal message.
    TheGent, LeRose, colby600 and 5 others like this.
  22. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Devotee (470) Sep 23, 2018 Maine

    I feel like this could get out of control quickly. Id hate to see review pages turn into entire forums with endless comments and replies, which then also opens the door to argument and drama. I'd love to see the "like a review" feature return, but I fear that a comment feature would inevitably disrupt the review process. I, for one, really hope this feature doesn't come to fruition.
    TheGent, LeRose, colby600 and 5 others like this.
  23. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (6,343) Sep 24, 2007 Kyrgyzstan

    Yeah, uh, nope-a-dope Ghostrider, the pattern is full.
    TheGent, LeRose, colby600 and 3 others like this.
  24. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,309) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Society Trader

    I write honest reviews reflecting my thoughts and have no problem with someone else writing an honest view that seemly contradicts mine. BA members have a wide range of style preferences and taste perceptions and arguing won't change any of that.

    I believe commenting on reviews will inevitably lead to conflict which only regress the conversation rather than leading it forward.
    Shanex, LeRose, Raime and 11 others like this.
  25. johnInLA

    johnInLA Champion (857) Jun 12, 2005 California

    There already is a way to engage and counter an existing review.

    Write your own review.

    And there is already a ranking/voting system, its called rating.

    And there are already brewery threads, where we can debate any given beer.

    Seems like this problem has already been solved.
  26. nick_perry

    nick_perry Devotee (403) Mar 11, 2017 North Carolina

    I oppose it. Reviews are a matter of opinion. If your opinion differs from mine, feel free to write your own review. But don't publicly attack me if we disagree on a beer. I used to post reviews on Yelp, and people would message me along the lines of "that's my favorite restaurant, how dare you not like it!" Part of why I got off that site.
    TheGent, LeRose, beertunes and 4 others like this.
  27. Scrapss

    Scrapss Champion (889) Nov 15, 2008 US Minor Outlying Islands

    Read review.

    Like review, like it. It floats up.

    Dislike? Then like a better one that floats up.

    No devolution or negativity required in this scheme.

    Good up, mediocre and bad not up. Simple as pie.
  28. rgordon

    rgordon Savant (975) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Exactly. Telling someone their opinion is wrong only works in court.
  29. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,603) Mar 12, 2009 New York

    I am against allowing any trollish "experts"' being allowed to expand their negativity and self-aggrandizement into the review section of this site. If we are voting on the idea picture this as a no vote.
  30. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (3,608) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    Re: likes and dislike buttons. Please do not add them. If a review is truly unhelpful or useless - report it.

    While a dislike button could be used with good intentions, it could very quickly devolve into down-voting reviews that don't align with popular public opinion (i.e this hyped beer really isn't that good). Reporting an inadequate review leaves that discretion up to those selected to moderate the site, which is to say - hopefully less biased than the general user population.

    @rozzom @dbrauneis @Todd
    bluejacket74, Raime, TheGent and 4 others like this.
  31. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,982) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    I think allowing the brewer to reply to a review could be a good idea, but I don't see us rolling out commenting for all users. We won't be adding any form of dislike either.
  32. Ranbot

    Ranbot Champion (876) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I like this in theory, but I can see the ways this can be abused by trolls to discourage people from reviewing. It could also be abused by unscrupulous brewers trying to artificially inflate good reviews/deflate bad reviews. But I don't like putting the "this helles sucks because it doesn't taste like a mango smoothie IPA" reviewers on par with good knowledgeable reviewers either....

    My personal preference would be for the site to designate certain members as "expert" reviewers and their reviews float to the top or can be sorted separately. Experts status could be granted based on karma, or submited cicerone/brewer certifications, or voted in by the community, or their last name is "Alström," or just assigned at the whim of the site owners.
  33. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (350) Feb 9, 2019 New York

    That is a good idea. “thanks, that's what we were aiming for”, ” sounds like the beer was mishandled/old. We'll talk to the distributor, where did you buy it?”
    How many breweries have an (quasi) official presence on BA? Allowing a brewery to comment on a review could generate more interest in BA from the production side.
    stevepat, rudiecantfail and cavedave like this.
  34. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,982) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Hard to gauge, but over 1,000 have claimed their place so far.
    Bitterbill and officerbill like this.
  35. johnInLA

    johnInLA Champion (857) Jun 12, 2005 California

    Allowing brewers to comment on a review can also be a slippery slope. Brewers have a vested / biased interest in minimizing less than stellar comments from independent critics. Correcting objective facts ( it was a blend of X and Y, not Y and Z ) is a good thing. Challenging subjective parts of the review ( There is no metallic flavor in our beer ) is more problematic.

    And if you think trolls can intimidate new reviewers, wait until brewers start criticizing them.

    In my view the brewer should speak through their beer.
  36. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,982) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    I agree with this. It's one of the core reasons why we don't have replies to comments now. I'm open to having the discussion, but I'm not sold on the idea.

    In the meantime, and as already mentioned in this thread, brewer could always start a private conversation.
    Bitterbill, FBarber, stevepat and 3 others like this.
  37. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (350) Feb 9, 2019 New York

    I didn't realize it was that many. How many of those would you call “active” (make or respond to posts) on any kind of regular basis?
  38. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (6,343) Sep 24, 2007 Kyrgyzstan

    Brewers have the opportunity to get the objective facts right now. They can add the beer to the site, and put details in the Notes section.

    If they don't add the beer themselves, and whoever does gets something wrong, they can submit a correction.
    bluejacket74 and johnInLA like this.
  39. LeRose

    LeRose Meyvn (1,402) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts

    Absolutely agree with this. There's threads where beers can be "debated" (WBADYN, NBS, PM the reviewer, or start a specific thread). Having reviews open to comments/replies will discourage written reviews even more. There are a lot of people who are intimidated enough now that they don't feel comfortable writing reviews - we do not need another de-motivating factor. Sarcasm alert - I am sure that comments/replies to reviews would be completely respectful and constructive (eyes rolling).

    Maybe the upvote/down vote might weed out some poor reviews, but they can already be reported. And what's a poor review - some people just try their best and don't use the "lingo" (i'd be one of them). Yes, some are obvious - the "this beer is f-n awesome" isn't a review. That I can understand, but just report them.I should heed my own advice. I read one last night that I should report - had absolutely nothing to do with the beer, just some sort of inside joke apparently.

    Allowing brewers to comment on reviews doesn't seem reasonable either. Beer needs to speak for itself and showcase the brewer's talents on its own merit. There's many ways to engage a brewery and I don't see allowing brewers to engage from a review to be useful. Brewers on the site have the same mechanisms as we do to "discuss" specific matters. I have had more than one brewer tell me to my face how ignorant I am when speaking to them about obvious brewing flaws (different than "I don't like it"). Don't need that here in public.

    This all seems like a solution looking for a problem.
    TheGent, Shanex, PapaGoose03 and 3 others like this.
  40. islay

    islay Aspirant (289) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I strongly disagree. Nobody rating or reviewing a beer should be afraid that the brewer might step in to contradict him publicly. People are highly deferential to professional brewers around here and tend reflexively to side with them in debates. A brewer that is known to respond to reviews likely quickly will develop skewed ratings in its favor. This is and should always be a site first and foremost for consumers, not a shill for the industry. Please don't add such a feature.
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