Slippery local slopes

All-

Let's steer this back to a discussion of beer and local beer...analogies to other industries may be interesting and valid to a point, but let's keep this on topic.

 

VA is a franchise state, so the rights to sell Stone are already owned by Hop+Wine for the north and Specialty/GreatBrewers for south of Richmond (it's named county by county, but that's roughly what's going on). Unless Stone buys those rights or "swaps brands" that's who will continue to sell Stone.

 

Well, if you look at where Stone started and where they are now, who knows what they'll wind up doing.

 

I'm glad Stone is coming. I like some of their beer, some not so much. (The Saison, for example, didn't thrill me. RuinTen, on the other hand...) I also really like the local beer scene that has been developing since Virginia loosened up the rules. We've got one of the older craft brewers in the state alongside a bunch of up-and-comers. Some of the new breweries are doing really interesting stuff. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, just because something's local doesn't mean it's good. We've got examples of that, too. I'm hoping that having Stone in town makes everybody up their game.

 

Well on this site we call it Advocating, not proselytizing. And thank heavens for the advocates! Without them, the Craft Beer movement itself would never have taken off, and we'd all be here drinking nothing but Bud and Miller and Coors.

 

Or drinking malt whisky and flying to the UK, Belgium or Germany for the occasional beer. :-)

 

I could be wrong here, but I feel like you missed his point. On this site many do call it advocating, and as Yemenmocha is a member here I doubt (sorry if I am wrong and speaking for you, Yemen) that he takes issue with that. He was referring specifically to those advocating local brews over all others. So i would contend there is a difference between advocating for good beer and using beer as a cover to advocate another agenda which is support of local economy over outside economies......which is not what this site is about to the best of my knowledge. That is not to say the conversation should not be had, I am always for open discussion and exchange of ideas, but I think you misrepresented his position a bit in that post.

 

I don't think anyone is "using beer as a cover to advocate another agenda," and I do think you're putting words in his mouth. The Local Food movement has some obvious synergies with many craft brewers. They would be foolish to not hitch their wagon to that star, and we would be foolish to not continually question how well the quality compares. Apparently in AZ the quality doesn't compare, and I have no reason to doubt that. But I still believe that more people interested in craft beer (even if it's a "locavore" mindset that brings them in) means more interest in good and better beer, and that means the market will continue to develop. I truly hope some day Yemen has what I have. Myself, I am headed in this weekend to pickup some fresh, just released Kiwi Rising and I'll offer a toast to you guys when I drink my first one.

 

Local means local. Stone isn't local. Drink local, but also drink the best from other places. When you can get it.

 

Being an advocate isn't synonymous with being a proselytizer, and I'd wager many here agree with me and do not like that portrayal. You can exclusively support something, recommend something when asked, but not be an outright proselytizer trying to "convert" people. No doubt, some see it as you do. I'm not disputing that. But many of us are not out to "convert" people to craft beer and don't see that as what being a (craft) beer advocate is all about. Heck, I'd go further and argue that being an advocate is not synonymous with being an activist either. But locavorism is food activism, and with little doubt there's a good measure of trying to convert others in that movement's various forms, including beer.

 

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on this one then. As far as the intent of the original post by Yemen, I thought it was clear he as not against advocating for beer, just not in favor of people using the local movement as a moral trump card to guilt those not on board. Notice in the following quote he states specifically local advocates vs beer advocates.

"it seems like really the buy local advocates are largely about telling other people how to spend their dollar"

So your post insinuating that he is grouping all advocates into the same bin as those that proselytize appears to be an unfair representation and a red herring.

I would also disagree that there are not some using beer as a cover to advocate another agenda. I am not saying there is a conscious and nefarious intent here, but I am saying that there is often the attached assumption / inference that buying or drinking local equates to something good. How this applies to the actual quality of beer produced is something I have yet to see as founded in fact.

 

Sincerely appreciate that. However, look, suppose I'm a San Diego resident. I don't have to go around and try to convince others to drink locals. The locals there are very good, if not the best in the country. That's a main point I've made above. The good stuff doesn't need the locavorist support. It thrives over the competition. It's the not so good local stuff that really benefits from the locavorist support, and therefore much of it boils down to supporting a lot of the mid range stuff that is often, or heck always, inferior to the best regional stuff from elsewhere that is best available from one's distributor.

A lot of posts above expressed similar sentiments, and they're tired of those changes being made in their local areas. It's not a theoretical point I'm making. Some BAs above describe those actual things happening.

 

.....and looks like Yemenmocha was quicker on the draw that I was. Haha

 

Really, you've never seen a "BMC Sucks" thread on here?

I think you have a very clear double standard, that if you like the movement it's advocacy, and if you don't like it it's proselytizing. Maybe you're right --it is like religion. But it's also like farts: Your own smell great, but everybody else's stinks!

 

I didn't insinuate that he was doing that, I insinuated that he should be doing that.

 

Just by definition I think you are off here. To advocate only means to declare open support for something without further intent, whereas to proselytize is directly correlated with the intent to convert, thus going beyond a mere opinion. That may be why some would be offended by the comparison here.

 

No double standard. No flatulence.

Someone can be an advocate without trying to convert others or "proselytize". That's me. That's others I know on here. They buy craft beer, hang out with other craft beer people, but make little if any effort to convert anyone to craft beer. They'll answer questions when asked. But otherwise, in public especially, we leave people alone.

For activism, converting others is arguably a necessary component of what it means to be an activist. It is necessary that other people become locavorists for the movement to have any measure of success. And there's zero doubt that locavorism is food/drink activism.