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Discussion in 'Article Comments' started by BeerAdvocate, Jan 13, 2020.
What about Places, did the traffic go up at all after that thread? I wrote 4 reviews since then.
Really interesting stats. The general point about the dominance of IPAs stands but I think people are reading too much into the 21,000 new IPAs vs 5,000 new lagers statistic. It seems to me that it doesn't really tell us much of anything beyond the fact that IPAs are much more prone to one-offs and "sibling-beers" that are essentially the same with simply a hop swap.
More lagers by barrels-produced is a good thing but I don't think anyone wants to see their numbers inflated simply by having more fly-by-night one and dones. That just adds a "problem" rather than solving one.
With Other Half brewing that much beers I'm surprised they haven't distributed over the country to the west coast.
This would be awesome. I love what Hopleaf and The Beer Temple do year round. Happy Zwanzie Day is still in Chicago after West Lakeview Liquors shutdown (though I think they are semi open at this point). Hopleaf did a great job. I didn't have a ticket, but was able to get great other pours and people were very generous sharing the limited bottles available.
A quote associated with Samuel Clemons (Mark Twain) comes to mind: “There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there is statistics”, comes to mind.
Yes, many of those ‘new’ IPAs are one and done beers and thereby makes it appear there are more new brands out there then genuinely are.
Perhaps a few of those lagers are one and done but I suspect very few.
13,548 place ratings in 2019. So under 1,000 were added between the thread and end of the year. Down 35 percent from 2018.
The Canada forum was definitely dwindling a bit but it seemed to die a pretty quick death after it got grouped under North America. It seems crazy, but having it not show up immediately on the regional list and requiring two clicks to get there seemed to really stifle the random people that used to post with questions and whatnot.
One thing that has helped in this respect is allowing languages other than English. There is a reason that despite having one of the best, biggest, oldest, craft scenes in Canada everybody in Quebec was always on the other site along with the other non-anglophone beer geeks around the world.
Remember it's "the average alcohol by volume for all new beers in 2019." If the new beers are dominated by IPA one-offs, then you should expect the average ABV of new beers to be close the IPA average ABV, which it is. I don't think it's very useful 2019 stat, but *shrug*. Also remember if the average ABV of all beers consumed could be calculated it would probably be very close the ABV of a beer with "Light/Lite" in the name.
I know I wrote a couple review as well as updated some old ones after that thread.
Great post thanks!
I feel the need to review a few "places" now...
I would echo @TheDoctor . I started using this site about a year before I joined and there was a small but very active Canadian user base. Even before the move to ‘hide’ Canada under North America, activity seemed to be dwindling. Other than the CANBIF threads, activity is negligible now, and even that is getting less and less
Participation. Note the current thread asking for Vancouver advice that hasn’t had a local respond in 4 days.
Among my beer friends, I’m the only one who uses the site regularly anymore. Those that weren’t too interested in the forums have moved to Untappd. Most of the francophones always preferred Ratebeer because they could review in French. Some have complained about the moderating , and the appearance that non-US news isnt viewed as important or relevant to a broader audience. I know one guy who quit when a thread about the AB-InBev purchase of Mill Street was moved to the Canada forum. Also, a lot of threads started by US users implicitly restrict discussions to US beers, often tacitly.
I don’t know how you win them back, or entice those new to beer to use the site. Those that like to track their beers and follow what their friends drink are going to use Untappd. Those who have used Ratebeer for years arent going to move over unless they are able to migrate their reviews too. I don’t know.
I don't use Untappd. Do they store the photos in their own servers? I believe it's been mentioned that BA doesn't have the capacity for that.
Uhm, I'm not even going to go there
I have a lightweight photo editing app on my phone. Take pic, crop, preset 150X300 resize, save at 80% quality (ensures below size limit)
Yeah, I doubt Other Hand had 306 new, uniquely different beers in 2019. More likely most were one & done variations on a base beer.
So I found this stat interesting, as all of these breweries seem to be amongst the top tier/very high quality US beer makers (although I haven't really heard of 450 North, but maybe they aren't on my radar yet).
And I would add the adjective of "US Juicy/Hazy IPA beer makers".
It seems that in order to be in this 'league' you are obligated to produce a lot of 'new' one and done Juicy/Hazy IPAs.
Tired Hands is very close to me and I have had quite a number of their one and done Juicy/Hazy IPAs and after a while they all seem to pretty much taste the same despite the varying brand names and the slight tweaks to their ingredient lists.
They store photos. See Two-Hearted example.https://untappd.com/b/bell-s-brewery-two-hearted-ale/4133
Some user submitted photos are good, some are garbage, but it's so fast and easy to flip through the photos to find good ones that it doesn't matter how many are crap. More hosting space is needed for sure, but there are ways for a website to automatically reduce/optimize photo file sizes to be more manageable. I bet the trickier part would be moderating photo submissions for errors and abuse by trolls, spammers, hackers, etc.
If you haven't heard of them, then Id suggest googling them or searching for their threads here on BA - some really interesting stuff recently.
If you dig a bit further you'll also notice they produce mainly New England IPAs. Which by nature have higher ratings.
They also tend to produce those "one-off" riffs on a base IPA with a simple hop swap that the last few posts on this page have been discussing.
Basically, you're not going to see the likes of Live Oak, Notch, Olde Mecklenburg...etc. on this list. The majority of the styles they produce are neither one-offs nor New England IPAs.
Still waiting for BA to come back to Los Angeles. One of the best fests I've ever attended.
Me, too! It was an awesome fest. Thanks for the support.
Also, Other Half releasing 306 unique beers is unreal. Are they constantly brewing small batches??
The other online sites folks have mentioned don’t work on my phone in the way I’m used to; they can resize image, but they distort the dimensions. Downloading an app is a good suggestion. Will give that a shot.
Another interesting point is that the 19 breweries who "produced over 100 new beers" collectively add up to 2567 new beers. Even if we take away 500 from that total as a (I'm guessing fair?) ball park number for their non-IPA releases, those 19 breweries produced about 10% of all new IPAs (2067/21,658) in 2019.
God, how I love stats - and you provided much to read and re-read.
The most eye-opening-to-me stat - the ratings average at 3.98. I would have guessed it in the lower third of three.
The most interesting thing in the article, honestly, waiting for this lager revolution. At first I was like, ¨Lager revolution? Really?¨ But the more I think of it, yeah, I would like to see that too.
you need an app already
As far as the 3.98 avg....that was interesting how it stayed exactly the same from 2018 to 2019 ratings. Not sure what to take from that with so many factors at play. Just interesting.
One thing as far as forum posting....seems that in last few years the demographic of participation has been trending to an older crowd and not seeing alot of new blood coming into join conversations. Is forum conversations becoming an old man thing to do like watching MLB baseball on TV every night or am I way off target in my observations?
Agree with Todd, would be awesome if we could get alot more international members joined in forum conversations. There are a few out there, but I personally love to hear from different places and cultures to get a pulse what is going on around the globe.
This the most interesting post I’ve seen on BA, but I appreciate numbers more than most people.
But am I the only one who was disturbed by the google analytics stats?
21 million new visitors, and 15 million left and never came back?
What are we doing about that?
Well if the majority of beers are IPAs, and IPAs are rated higher than every other style, then this makes sense.
I wonder what the average age of a BA is? Or what the spread of age ranges is...as in how many are in their 20s, 30s, 40s...etc.
Good idea. Add a checkbox to the profile page, 5 year increments until 60+ @Todd
For users, we can just use the DOB that they entered upon joining.
Oh yeah, forgot about that
From our Google Analytics for the last year:
25-34 = 37.43%
35-44 = 23.31%
45-54 = 15.62%
55-64 = 10.10%
18-24 = 8.19%
65+ = 5.34%
I've yet to compare this to our active registered users.
Thanks for getting that so quickly.
60% 25-44 for visitors makes sense. People looking for reviews & ratings on the latest beers, unknown brewers, and unfamiliar styles before they find the brewers they trust for the styles they like.
I have a feeling that majority of registered users will skew higher (35-55?) and regular users higher still (45-65?).
Cc: @bubseymour @AlcahueteJ
Age Range = BeerAdvocate | Google Analytics
25-34 = 31.01% | 37.43%
35-44 = 34.36% | 23.31%
45-54 = 17.96% | 15.62%
55-64 = 9.85% | 10.10%
65+ = 4.89% | 5.34%
18-24 = 1.03% | 8.19%
Rough percentages here. BA numbers are based on all users who entered their DOB, and GA numbers are based on anonymized data gathered from numerous sources within the last year.
Love this site - and (though possibly poorly) I review every beer I post on. A small blurb would be great in general and simple - I personally cannot find 1500 characters to say about any beer (good for those of you who can) BUT a couple hundred is easy.
God I hate getting/being old (relative) but UNTAPPD is where the youth goes and clearly many more new beers and (simple) ratings hit there before a beer may even be posted on this site which is unfortunate. I use UNTAPPD in this sense though have never posted there. Prefer a true review from someone who cares enough to say a few words about what they consumed.
Addendum: then you show me stats that 38% of users are under 35 on BA - mmmm so maybe UNTAPPD only for the really young??? I feel silly.
Wow, the 25-34 group is much larger than I thought it would be.
Good! BA needs the younger demo in order to grow and prosper.
I hate to disagree with your disagree but after I finally, finally learned how to resize a picture into 150x300 I have now done it enough times to actually agree that's it's easy enough to do. Having said that - if it's at all difficult to do (anything beyond a few steps, or that requires step by step instructions should be considered as such...), people won't do it (they aren't - hence most beers on BA these days don't have pictures). Not to mention the quality of the photos that I and lots of people are uploading are still very poor either from a resolution perspective, focus, whatever. I don't pretend to understand the difficulties but as someone mentioned, server space is probably a big one. To @StoutSnob40 's excellent points, this and ratings are the primary reasons why people go elsewhere for beer info. And let's not beat around the bush - most are going to untapped. While I do my best to upload pictures and beer details and remain a loyal BA follower, we need that App!! Nothing beats the quality of ratings and especially detailed reviews on BA so in the scheme of things maybe not a big deal, but every little bit counts, and when ratings are dropping by 20+%, definitely something to pay attention to... Cheers!
Remember Hefeweizen? Where are all the Hefeweizens? That Widmer knocked me out in Portland OR back in the 1980s.
Damn @Todd , that was quick! Thank you so much, as I find this really interesting.
Good to know a lot of people on this site are on the younger side.
That being said, that 1% of members in the 18-24 range is eye popping, albeit understandable. I feel as if anyone in that age range doesn’t have the attention span for a forum.
By nature people are lazy. Whatever excuse one can come up with to not do something, they'll use it. "Oh, this is too many steps..PASS."
One could argue though that even with a functioning mobile ap that so much ground has been lost to untappd that to say it's an uphill battle would be an understatement. As stated before, liquor stores used to always have BA scores under heavily sought after beers (or at least the ones near me did)...now...not a chance.
I dunno. I'm a rather cynical person but looking at the way things are now in the craft beer community, I'd firmly stand by saying that BA is for people serious about beers whereas untappd is purely dick measuring and swinging. It's pokemon for beer. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yup, couldn't agree more. I do my best for BA but you can only do so much. I agree that there is a big user gap in between BA and Untapped and if this app can make rating beers, taking pictures, etc. easier - it might draw some of those semi-serious people back to BA, if they left in the first place for those reasons. Maybe it will even draw in some less than serious folks in too, if they're wanted. As I'm sure you remember, some time ago, BA intentionally changed from a one click rating system to a 4 attribute rating system - and I know this turned a lot of people off - but it effectively made BA a place for serious beer dudes. In my [limited] knowledge of online beer ratings, there are really only two popular beer ratings vehicles - BA and Untapped, with the latter having far more users. There's another one owned by ABI but I pay it no respect. Point being it's an uphill battle, but one that's still being waged. I'm sure BA knows all this and it's probably been discussed in another post somewhere, who knows. Anyway, cheers again!