Howdy! A Google search tells me this has come up far too many times. But after a few days of researching and trying to fix the issue, I am getting frustrated. I am running a vanilla porter, and Fat Tire out of a KegCo MDK-309. I am having issues with both, but the problem seems worse on the Fat Tire. I have tried various pressures, and of course the lower pressure seems to help (5psi), but I worry about the beer going flat. So I am working with 10-12psi on my regulator to each keg (I am 4500ft elevation). I believe I have dialed in the temperature, and beer pours around 38-40F (see image links). I've tried various types of glasses, and glass temperatures. It seems like the beer is just shooting out too quickly, and overflows the glass in just a few seconds with foam. I've installed a tower cooler, so the tower feels nice and chilly to the touch. It doesn't matter which pour this is, the problem still happens. I've wasted far too much delicious beer and would very much appreciate some help. This is a brand new setup that I just purchased and isn't even a week old. Pics: http://www.mattandshelby.com/MBchrono/Beer 1.JPG http://www.mattandshelby.com/MBchrono/Beer 2.JPG Thanks in advance! Matt
This comes up all the time. For a new kegerator it takes about a week to get everything in balance if you have complete knowledge of the process. From your description the most likely culprit is your serving line is too short or the wrong diameter. Here are two links that cover just about everything. After digesting this, fire away with any specific questions: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/foaming.193492/ https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/help-with-balancing-my-system.248243/ Oh yeah, temp and press changes can take days to complete . . . patience is a virtue.
We can help, we do it all the time. But if you just bought it shouldn't you be making the seller fix the problem? I say this not to be a jerk but because there are far too many retailers selling under-performing kegerators. They take your money. You really should be barking at their customer service. I suspect they will be useless. If you have been changing the pressure without knowing the other 2 variables you have started a process that you can't bring back, so you are likely out of luck. Read the threads @PortLargo posted, along with all the others about balancing a kegerator. Cheers.
I never got a notification that this had activity! Should have just checked back. So, I almost gave up on the entire thing. It's got me wanting to curl up into a ball and cry. The numbers are just not adding up. I am currently running an IPA and a Hefeweizen. Both on the same tank/regulator. I have tried everything throughout the pressure spectrum. Even at PSI 7 get foam bursting out. (Literally shot out into the glass and on the wall) I am running standard 5 feet line at standard diameter 3/16". I've tried temps from 38-42 degrees (temp measured via cup of water), waited and tried again. Same issue. More foam. I called the manufacturer today. They suggested as my elevation is 4500 feet, to lower back down to 38 degrees, and crank psi up to 14. I've never gone that high, and suspect it will just blow foam in my face, but am going to try. Does that sound right? Higher PSI to fix foaming? The tower is cooled and insulated. I am at my wits end and just want to enjoy this thing after months of having it.
The mfg is an idiot. The first thing to do is stabilize your beer (temp/press). You don't know what the current volumes of CO2 are in your beer because you keep changing the pressure. Vent your headspace to zero, wait a few hours and vent to zero again, then set 12 psi and don't touch it for a week. Second thing is to order 10' of 3/16" x 5/16" bevlex 200 clear tubing and install. While waiting for the pressure to stabilize, buy and calibrate a decent liquid thermometer and make all future measurements from the beer (not the air or a cup of water). Your target is 38 degrees/~2.5 volumes of CO2 (not ideal for the hefe but work on that later). All of these steps are discussed in detail in the two links I posted above. Anything you don't understand, ask away. Edit: that should be 3/16" x 7/16"
PortLargo and Billandsuz are the experts here as well as a few others. I've got a crappy big box store kegerator (the kind everyone tells you to avoid and they are 100% correct). Just a note on the temperature and how much it factors into the equation. My kegerator has been stable now for a long time after years of playing with it and replacing the crappy parts that came with it. This summer has been extra hot and muggy in the area my kegerator is at (re-did my basement which changed the airflow). Anyhow my kegerator has been doing exactly what your system is doing, my previous perfectish pours are now mostly foam. The temperature sensor in the kegerator was on the cold plate which was extra frozen over due to the humidity (got to check my seals on the kegerator as well). Anyhow this caused the temperature to not get down as far as normal. I defrosted the cold plate and moved the temperature sensor and now no more foam and now I have to actually turn down the temperature settings because its getting so much colder. So above all else you might want to really focus on getting the temperature of the beer to 38F or lower. Personally I've found the CO2 settings and length of your beer lines to be smaller factors than the temperature (I've got 5 foot beer lines and have flow control faucets which someday I'll address).
Yeah it was very frustrating. Lots of delicious beer down the drain. To deal with it, I lowered the PSI so low just to at least get it out of the keg and dealt with the foam. But I am determined to get this working properly since I just bought two brand new kegs the other day. I blew off the pressure on the kegs, then again after waiting a couple hours, then set to 12psi. I am just letting it sit for awhile so it has a chance to actually cool to 38 degrees and pressurize correctly per PortLargo's instructions. After posting last night, I decided to take the liquid temp of the beer right after pouring. The Hefeweizen was 48 and the IP was was 52! Holy crap! That was quite a shock since the kegerator was set to 42. It's obvious what the main issue is now. Hopefully I will have some positive updates soon.
To properly take the temp, use a calibrated thermometer and start with a room temp pint glass. Draw a beer or foam into the glass, immediately dump. Draw a second beer into that glass and take the liquid temp without touching the glass. Higher temps call for higher pressures to balance, but at the numbers you are reporting you will likely not be able to balance. A sure sign of things going wrong is if you look at your beer lines and see pockets of CO2 or any moving bubbles.
95% of draft beer problems are due to temperature. Too high that is. 38F is your target beer temp. 37F or 36F can help but anything much over 40F is an endless headache of foam. If you do not have a tower fan you should get one. It is required and without a tower fan you will never get a decent pour. Cheers.
Does it need to come out of the tap and into your glass at 38F or Stored at 38F? Also, pretty sure I've heard beer lines shouldn't dip below the top of the keg...can anyone confirm how true this is?
Beer is ideally served at 38, the goal of a draft system is to be 38 from the keg to the faucet which is why a tower cooler is used in short draw systems and glycol is used in long draw systems. The line dipping below the keg is BS. Properly balanced beer in a line is the same pressure throughout and will not break out. A half foot of elevation will not effect it. Guess who says the height of the line matters? People with poorly balanced systems that have pockets of CO2 collect at the high spots.
Well, there are certainly different carbonations for different styles. And that is related to applied pressure (psi) but it's not just that, it's also the temperature. Simply, the amount of gas dissolved in a liquid is directly related to the temperature of the liquid. So if you just increase the psi without understanding the relationship to temperature your beer will foam, because the gas will not stay in solution. The amount of dissolved CO2 in beer, and other carbonated beverages, is described in terms of "vols" sometimes seen as v/v. Search for a beer carbonation chart and you can see 2.5 vols requires 11 psi at 38F but less psi as the liquid is colder. This is why we always want to know the beer temp when analyzing too much foam. It is always, and I mean always because the beer is too warm. There may also be a few other problems but temperature is by far and away the biggest problem. Search for proper carbonation of beer styles and you will see an English Mild would have less vols than a Pils and a Hefe has still more. Belgian styles tend to be highly carbonated. It is not complex. There are in fact three things required. Temperature. Pressure. Resistance. They are related. That's all there is and there ain't no more. And we aren't discussing resistance here and now but that is also important. Cheers
Yeah, as stated by @DougC123 that's bull shit. The keg is just a giant can of beer. Until you open the faucet. Once the faucet is closed the regulator puts a little more gas into the keg to make up for the increase in void space above the beer line. Then it is a giant closed can of beer again. There is nothing magic about a beer line connected to the keg. It's all the same container. The beer doesn't know if it is in a metal can or a plastic tube. At least I don't think it does. I never asked it.
So, I didn't really get a chance to report back until now. I took PortLargo's advice and basically just took a chill pill, and made the adjustment to the system and let it sit. I went on vacation for 5 days and when I got back, beautiful ice cold beer with a beautiful head. It's obvious my inexperience caused me to make too many mistakes, mainly I was expecting changes in the system to happen in way too short of a time period. A little patience went a long way. Thanks everyone in the community who posted here. Really appreciate all the advice! Matt