Top Breweries in MA

Not sure I have that much to expand on...Tree House beers in my pretty extensive experience don't separate/flocculate/whatever happens to be going on like the Sierra Nevada guy is talking about. I pretty regularly pop the can top off with an opener and then throw it in a metal coozie, and even with beers that are months old, I've never seen any sludge at the bottom. And of course never seen any floaters when I pour into a glass.

I wasn't trying to say that I knew anything these brewers don't about flocculation and avoiding it in hazy NEIPA's, just that somebody does, and it has to be pretty cool to read posts like that where it's almost implied what he's doing is impossible.

Also re: Trillium, I don't think I follow what you're saying? Trillium switched to cans less than a year ago so the case would have been bottles.

 

This occurred in what is arguably the original hyped/popular New England IPA (not necessarily hazy like Trillium) in Heady Topper. And perhaps it happens in many of these beers, but not necessarily all. To be fair, there may not be nearly as many examples of these types of beers on the West Coast, and a limited exposure during a single trip to the ones on the East Coast may not tease out these differences.

This style of beer is still relatively young, and even experienced brewer's may not know everything about it.

In my experience, these beers lose some of their flavor after a couple months, regardless of appearance/yeast in suspension. This would make national distribution difficult if your beer, whether it's top notch or not, is sitting on the shelf due to stiff competition. That's IF you can even distribute multiple beers in your profile fresh enough in the first place.

I assume what you're saying here is the member you referenced has done it, and that's it's cool to have done something another brewer is implying is impossible. Perhaps the Sierra Nevada rep didn't necessarily mean it's impossible though, simply that he didn't think it could be done theoretically. I doubt it was meant to be a back handed slap towards these brewers.

Ah, yes, you're correct. Sorry, I had thought they had started canning earlier than last summer-ish. They sold cases of 750s? That had to be insanely expensive.

 

The poster I mentioned, who I referred to by his screen name in my original reply, is the head brewer/owner of Tree House. He posts in the Tree House thread semi-regularly.

I didn't read it as a back hand slap either, it's a valid point for certain breweries...just one that doesn't apply to all NEIPA's as he seemed to be implying. My original post was just a little comment about one brewer being rightfully pleased about that.

And yeah, a case (I'm talking 12 bottles just to be clear) at Trillium was expensive (believe it was $10 for IPA's and $12 for DDH IPA's?)...and stupid heavy.

 

I'm sure that may be true for some brewer's. But I can't think of many newer craft breweries who come right out of the gate with a good Pilsner (I'm not counting the overly hoppy ones). Some do make decent one's, but as I said before, this took time and tweaking...but the same could be said of many styles I'm sure.

It is formulaic to a degree, but there's a lot detail and nuance to brewing beer, and also cooking food. I can follow a recipe, but that doesn't mean I'm a world class chef. Just like "any monkey" can't make a great IPA.

I honestly don't know if I've had that one. If any brewer's get close to the Belgians it's Allagash and Ommegang. Allagash White is still one of my favorite beers period, and the only American example that can hold a candle to St. Bernardus Wit. Allagash White is the measuring stick for which I measure every American Witbier example (and I can't think of one American attempt that comes close to it off the top of my head).

 

Sorry, I meant to comment on this part as well.

Gueuze (or sours in general) are another style I think are more forgiving due to how bold the flavor is. Again, I certainly wouldn't say it's easy to do (I've toured the Cantillon brewery and there's a lot of detail, time and effort that goes into his Gueuze).

I think to judge how easy it is or isn't to brew a "NE-style" IPA is a mystery at the moment. The style is so young, I think brewer's are continuously tweaking and experimenting...but it certainly seems as if more and more of them are coming up with good examples.

But some of those lighter styles, like a Pilsner, seems to be something professional brewer's are impressed by and gravitate towards. For example, I know the brewer at Exhibit A, who has quite a bit of experience, has said he is most proud of his Kölsch.

 

Similarly, the first time I was at Lost Nation, it was empty so I got to chat with the brewer about most of the beers on tap at the time and the one he talked about most was his pils. He said he “babies” that one more than any of his other beers even though it’s those other beers that get attention from customers.

 

I'm not sure I know any new breweries at all that reach their fullest potential from the start unless they've been working in breweries for years already. Even then, that's not always true either. Everyone needs to practice on their system for a while. Many don't even have proper equipment from the start. I also don't really know what pilsners you've had or how high your standards are. There are quite a lot of traditionally inspired ones made in the US by small breweries that are just fine; if nailing a pils means being best-of-the-best then you are just setting up an incredibly difficult goal. There's also a lot of shit pilsner in Germany, so even they aren't perfect. I really enjoy tipo pils and, of all places, it's made in Italy.

Agree to disagree, I guess. Formulas and brewing science are all in the details. Those who understand them more deeply tend to be the better brewers. There is creativity within that but it creates variables which need to be calculated and understood if you ever want to be able to replicate it. Recipes only expose the surface.

I still honestly find the pilsner-as-a-test thing to be ridiculous. I haven't heard someone say that until now but I'm not too surprised. Overall, I'm sick of the smug nature among brewers and people in the industry right now who spout off things like that. Makes me wonder if their IPA is even any good. The UK mostly focuses on ales: am I to assume the entire country is full of unskilled brewers? This is why it sounds so unreasonable to me.

I'm not too interested in an infinite forum debate about it. It's interesting to discuss I just feel like this goes in circles forever.

Not all guezes are boldly flavored though, I feel that is a thing much more popular with sours in America. And you aren't judging with the same criteria as with a pilsner. It is mainly focused on the funk/sour and that is really all there is to taste. It's hardly forgiving and near impossible to mask bad flavors or mistakes except for maybe sweetening it, which then it is not gueuze.

Exhibit A's kolsch is nice. I'd recommend it and pick up an Allagash Tripel. Hill farmstead looks like they are rolling out their Helles soon; could be interesting

That makes sense because that's their best beer, IMO. I haven't liked many of their hoppy beers.

 

Hell-There has been a lot of serious next- level beer geek discussion on this thread about a meaningless, click-bait article. I have three points to make- 1: every time I order a Sam or Harpoon Ipa in a bar, I wait in anticipation- how fresh will it be? Once it gets within a foot of my nose, I have my answer. It is either sublime or forgettable. 2: I find it interesting that the same is true for the NE IPA. 3: Seriously-lets stop with the damn lists.

 

whenever Jim says that a SA beer in the style follows within 6 months