Averagely Perfect Dubbel - Poll #37 - Carbonation Level

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jun 5, 2018.

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Select a recommended carbonation level (volumes of CO2).

Poll closed Jun 7, 2018.
  1. 2.5 or lower (write in)

    8.3%
  2. 2.7

    25.0%
  3. 2.9

    8.3%
  4. 3.0

    37.5%
  5. 3.1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 3.2

    16.7%
  7. 3.3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3.4

    4.2%
  9. 3.6

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 3.8 or higher (write in)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    -> Poll #36 <- determined that the D-90 syrup would be added at flameout.

    This poll will determine the recommended Carbonation level. Big Disclaimer: Some Belgian styles, including Dubbels, are sometimes carbonated to levels higher than might be safe in a run-of-the-mill LHBS bottle. While the goal of this recipe is to make the best crowd sourced dubbel possible, please don't forget safety when it comes to actually packaging this beer, depending on your own circumstances. That said, I recommend voting for the level that you feel is ideal.

    When this poll is done, I will discard any outliers, compute the weighted average (mean) of the remaining votes, and round to the nearest 1/10th of a volume.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently. Lobbying for votes and intelligent discussion of each choice's relative merits is encouraged.

    The Averagely Perfect Dubbel Recipe so far...

    5 Gallons into the fermenter
    Target ABV: 7.0%
    OG: 1.065
    FG: 1.012
    IBUs: 24 (Tinseth)
    Yeast: Wyeast 3787 or WLP530
    Mash (recommended): 60 Minutes @ 152F
    Assumed Mash Efficiency: 70%
    Boil Length (recommended): 60 minutes
    Fermentation: Pitch at 66F, ramping up naturally or via temperature control to 73F over 2-3 days
    Overall Water Profile:
    ---Ca 68 ppm
    ---Cl 90 ppm
    ---SO4 41 ppm


    Grains/Fermentables:
    ---Belgian Pilsner Malt (86%)
    ---Caramunich (4% Total)
    ---Special B (2%)
    ---D-90 Syrup (8%) (added at flameout)

    Hops:
    60 minutes: Styrian Goldings (1.13 ounces, 5% AA)
    10 minutes: Styrian Goldings (0.5 ounces, 5% AA)
     
  2. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (223) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I rarely if ever go above 2.4 volumes. Same with this one.
     
    Naugled likes this.
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I think we should be aiming higher.

    "Westmalle aims for 6-8 g (3-4 volumes) CO2 per liter."
    Brew Like A Monk, page 75.

    Of course, they bottle condition, which could be another poll, but I'm happy enough to keg this one.

    I see I am in the minority right now. Hopefully some of you will revaluate or we can find some middle ground.
     
    jbakajust1 and Soneast like this.
  4. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (830) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    I would shoot higher as well, i went with 3.0 as I thought any higher may scare people off. Seems like most sources recommend 3.0 minimum. https://beerandbrewing.com/belgian-beer-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong/
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (223) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Granitebeard likes this.
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I don't bottle much anymore, but I had gushers in my early days. I bottled my first hundredish batches and by and large the gushers went away after 10 or so batches, when I (1) learned about sanitation and (2) stored my beers cold before opening. I know you have been around the block, and am confident that you do not have sanitation issues and are capable of storing beer properly. But I am surprised if you have found 2.4 volumes to be the secret to avoiding gushers. I always tried to bottle Belgians at higher than 3 volumes and don't recall the gusher problem in any of them.
     
    PortLargo, jbakajust1 and NiceFly like this.
  7. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (223) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I just have never found any beers of 2.4 volumes to be less than excellently carbonated. I just don't find it necessary in any way to go above that point.
     
  8. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I am not saying this is wise but I have bottle conditioned up to 3.4 vol in reused Sierra Nevada bottles a number of times. Non Sierra Nevada bottles too for that matter.

    The 3.4 vol in SN bottles were shipped as well, 5 boxes. Can you clone it challenge and I picked Westmalle Tripel. I would be lying if I said I was not sweating those shipments but they made it and nobody died.

    One funny story about opening one of the Westmalle clones. It was warm, I was talking, and I was using my pocket knife to open the bottle. I am sure you all know that trick. Anyway I was not paying attention and only opened the bottle a tiny bit. The bottle few out of my hand in a beer driven proplusion and slid across the floor. That was funny. Bottle still did not break.
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    The higher carb is partly about presentation, but there is a sensory component. It helps to balance the sweetness that can come with mid-high gravity brews like the trappiest styles. It also volatilizes aromatics, making me want to shove my face into the narrowed opening of my special Belgian beer glass, leaving a comical dot of foam on the tip of my nose. Anyhow, I made my plea, and adjusted my initial 3.6 (or maybe it was 3.4) vote to 3.2 in an effort towards compromise.
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  10. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (830) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    Yeah, I can see how bottling could be problematic. I plan to natural carb in the keg. That said, 3.0 seems like a good compromise. Which is not to say that I won't still carb to my preferred level anyhow. :wink:
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  11. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Initiate (70) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    As a bottler and a preference for lower carbonation in my beers, I voted 2.7. may end up going a little lower myself but could understand going 3 or higher for kegs.
     
  12. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I like a lower carb for dubbels as well. I usually shoot for around 2.5. I've entered many dubbels in competitions and have never had a "carbonation too low for style" remark.

    I prefer my dubbels to be rich and creamy, less sharp and sparkly. Up to 3 vol is preferable me.
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Alright, the weighted average rounds to 2.9 volumes.
    That should be it for the polls. I'll get the final recipe written and posted to the recipe sub-forum, hopefully tonight.
     
    Push_the_limits and jbakajust1 like this.
  14. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Is this the record number of polls for a recipe?
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Nope!
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Final Recipe --> HERE <--
     
  17. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (830) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    As always, thanks for all your hard work putting these together!
     
    crcostel likes this.
  18. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Initiate (70) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    Awesome! Will brew it in a couple weeks
     
  19. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    Thanks for all the effort, @VikeMan!
     
  20. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    I think we easily had more polls for the Saison as we ended up going back and redoing the Brett addition to get Sacc Trois replaced.
     
  21. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    Looking back at the old AP projects:

    AP ESB - 34 polls
    AP NE IPA - 35 polls
    AP Saison - 48 polls (not counting the April Fools poll #49 for kettle geometry)
    AP American Stout - 33 polls
     
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  22. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Not my best April Fools post ever, though I think that one did get one or two people.
     
    pweis909 and jbakajust1 like this.
  23. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Early vote for an AP lager next time. With a triple decoction we might be able to break 50 polls.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  24. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    As I start shopping for malts, it occurs to me we could do another poll on this dubbel recipe. At ritebrew.com, the only caramunich they have is Bestmalz CaraMunich I 35L. I never used a "caramunich" at this low Lovibond.

    Edit: not serious about doing another poll
     
  25. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    I picked up the ingredients for this today. Choices at my LHBS were Caramunich I, II, and III. Im not sure which this recipe assumes, but I did Caramunich I also.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
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