Lowering the Gravity of an IPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by pweis909, Apr 19, 2015.

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  1. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Call it a session IPA, an extra pale ale, a hoppy pale ale, or whatever you like -- debating style categories is not the point here.

    I want to brew a beer inspired by an American IPA recipe but at lower gravity. I want to avoid making hop water. I searched the forum and found this helpful thread. In adapting the IPA recipe, here are some of the things I will consider based on these comments and comments elsewhere.

    1. Build malt flavor. Sub out some of the pale malt in the grist for something more flavorful, like Maris otter, Munich, or Vienna. Possibly use a light touch of low Lovibond crystal.

    2. Build body.
    a. Use some carapils and/or low Lovibond crystal and/or
    b. Sub out some of the base malt for oats or wheat. (The referenced thread suggests flaked but I think malted forms would be fine, too. What about crystal wheat or golden naked oats). And /or
    c. Use a less attenuative yeast (such as switching from S-05 to BRY-97?).

    3. Reduce bittering hops and possibly move to first wort hop addition - based on a comment on another forum (maybe BeerSmith?) on FWH, attributed to Mitch Steele. The reduction should help reduce BU:GU ratio and bitter hop water phenomenon, and the FWH maybe (yes, its controversial) adds a little something back.

    4. Move mid-range hop additions to whirlpool (more because I have been doing more of this lately, not necessarily a consequence of this gravity-reducing exercise).

    Looking for thoughts on this and other strategies.

    BTW, you may have heard of the recipe I am trying to adapt.
     
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  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    For the malt side, I think you could make a pretty tasty low gravity IPA with GP and a little White Wheat.

    Consider using Wyeast 1450, as that will add body, and a more balanced flavor profile.
     
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  3. jncastillo87

    jncastillo87 Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2013 Texas

    What about raising mash temp to achieve both body and maltiness ? I personally have been doing the same thing as you. I just recently brewed a centennial smash ale that comes in at 6.5%. Pale ale malt, carapils, and acidulated. Mash for 60 mins at 156 and then add 1 oz whole cone hops at 15, 10, 5, and 0. The higher mash temp will ALSO cut down on how low the US05 will attenuate... You can get pretty close to what you want with late hop additions and higher mash temps.
     
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  4. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Trying to respond to a post that apparently has been deleted or otherwised lost (I failed to register which BA posted it) which suggested that since the original was not malty, trying to boost the maltiness would be a mistake.

    My reasoning for (1) is that if you have 12 # of pale malt in 5 gallons and compare it to a beer with 9#s of base malt in 5 gallons, you will notice a difference in maltiness. I was thinking something that including something a little toastier in those 9#s should help compensate. This isn't really my idea but something I latched on to in other discussions.
     
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  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Good point. I would not have overlooked this in practice, but it didn't come to mind while I was composing the post.
     
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  7. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    A noble effort to make a "session" BA APA IPA. I think one of the beauties of this recipe is the simplicity (other than hop schedule!) and recommend you continue in this direction.

    1. Build Malt Flavor - I see this as a miss more than a hit. The original was not malty (by design) . . . would not tamper.

    2. Build Body - Maybe a little more carapils, but not go overboard. Don't see oats/wheat helping here (taste-wise). Would concentrate on adjusting mash temp and maybe less attenuative yeast.

    3. Reduce Bittering Hops - The original recipe only has 0.11oz of Magnum which yields 11 IBUs. No problem with ditching this. I would not FWH . . . let mid-hops be the first addition.

    4. For late hops I feel you could consolidate the 15/10 addition to 10 minutes and the 5/0 to 0 minutes (which I will probably do next time I brew this). Maybe do an extended (split?) whirlpool at intermediate temps (170 or less).

    Consider making the grain adjustments to drop the OG to 1.050 and keep the FG at 1.012 (mash temp/yeast) which will yield a 5% beer. When the Monks brew their single (Enkel), it's mostly just a reduction in grain (lower OG) and everything else is the same. This yields good results. I would take the same approach here.
     
  8. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (1,133) Sep 20, 2006 Michigan

    I did a 3% hoppy beer with 4 lb MO, 1 lb Munich, and 1 lb carapils. Mashed at 155. The body was nice, and not too thin.
     
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  9. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    I would like to know how lower do you want this original gravity beer to be. I think it is not easy to compensate the lack of alcohol in a beer taste. Maybe it is not a good idea to use a given recipe to scale it down, specially when you have to deal with a huge amount of hops additions.
     
  10. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
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    I immediately thought of 1450 as well, I really liked what it did for a couple APAs that I did.
     
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  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Original recipe was OG 1.062. I would like to be about 1.045. You are essentially right I think that it would not be a good idea to use the original recipe and just scale down the malt. I am thinking of lots of tweaks that might make the original look pretty different, but the hope is something that I'll like to drink (not too watery) that reminds me of that recipe. I could start with a blank slate and build up, but I found this approach of starting with a recipe and thinking about the adjustments to be an interesting way to spend a Sunday morning.
     
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  12. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I can tell you from copious experience that this is an excellent session IPA:

    http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/31645/129900/

    It drinks like a 6% ABV, at least as far as hoppiness is concerned. The wheat really seems to help provide a foundation for the hops without adding excessive malt character. My thinking has always been that you need a decent amount of alcohol to dissolve the hop oils into the beer and deliver them to your tongue. This beer and Zero Gravity's vaguely similar 'Conehead' has me rethinking this idea.
     
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  13. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    So excellent that they brewed it once? :wink:
    It's not listed on their website. Did you speak with the brewer to learn that there was wheat present, and was it flaked or malted?
     
  14. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Not brewed once; it's always available. My understanding is that it's a standard American wheat beer with a lot of hops, so about 60% malted wheat/40% pale malt. The brewers do favor Belgian styles so I'd not be surprised if they use a little unmalted wheat. They claim 50 IBU but it drinks like less. Plenty of flavor and aroma though.
     
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  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I responded to this earlier in post #5.

    Oats or wheat would not be added for flavor but for protein content, which might affect perception of body

    I would ditch the Magnum, but I do like to have something in the traditional bittering addition spot.

    I would also consolidate those additions as you say, with the 0 min getting extended in the whirlpool. Not sure of the temp.

    I appreciate this, but to play devils advocate, the monks are using a more flavorful malt than 2-row, and depending on which monks, cutting the gravity from blonde to einkel might mean cutting sugar, not malt.
     
  16. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I wonder if this might not be a place for a "more flavorful malt". @JohnSnowNW mentioned GP earlier, that would be an great/awesome base malt for a low gravity APA/IPA, especially combined with a yeast like 1450 or maybe 1272.
     
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  17. drewbeerme

    drewbeerme Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2007 Illinois

    I like adding flaked barley and mashing around 154f. I don't really change my hopping except I use less since it's a small beer. I like 1:1 BU:OG ratio or slightly less BU than 1:1. Session IPAs don't have to be that bitter.
     
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  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would do that, i.e. something like GP or MO. But I tend to use those in normal sized APAs/IPAs anyway.
     
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  19. drewbeerme

    drewbeerme Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2007 Illinois

    Yes, I'd second a characterful base malt, otherwise you might end up with hop water. Which seems to be something people like a lot, although it can be refreshing it gets very boring to me quickly.
     
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  20. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Never done this but I was listening to a podcast about session beers and they mentioned that in Germany they use more unfermentable malts to reduce fermentable sugars which causes a higher FG for their low abv beers.
     
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