The difference between Pale Ale and IPA

Lots of overlap there though! I always got a kick out of how Oskar Blue's Pale Ale was stronger than their IPA, before they discontinued the latter of course. But proves the point that one brewery at least was firmly in the camp that a Pale Ale should have a much firmer malt backbone than an IPA, which Dales definitely has.

Edit: I just looked them up, it's 6.5% vs 6.43%, for some reason I thought the difference was bigger, but the character difference is(was) still wide.

 

Sorry I took you to mean what you wrote.

 

How many of you here have gone into a brewery/bar and ordered a newly-released beer, then log into this site (or UT) to add the beer to the database, and in doing so, put it 100% of the time into the style category that is listed on the beer menu? It should always be whatever the brewer calls it. I rest my case.

 

So we've determined that the differences are obvious, just like Stout and Porter.

 

Yes the brewer can call it what ever they like. However, that same brewer enters a contest (GABF for example) with very specific guidelines with a beer they believe to be an IPA, or Pale Ale, or NEIPA and they fail to show, place or win their division; then said "what the brewer thinks" philosophy fails. The GABF has super specific guidelines as to what beers belong in what category as judged by beer aficionados, pros, and cicerones.

https://gabf.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/20_GABF_Beer_Style_Guidelines_Final3.pdf

the above link goes to the GABF rule book on styles.

My personal thinking is the ABV only determines whether a beer earns the Strong or Imperial namesake.

(Whole other ballgame when different SRM malts, yeasts, and aging methods used!)

Flavor of hops present (both in aroma and taste), the harmony (balance) of the hops to malt, and the malt used (whether on the sweet side or dry side) overall determines an IPA from a PA. Aroma can be a CRITICAL tiebreaker in delivering judgment between an IPA and a PA.

A Pale Ale for me will get as close to an IPA as possible. Pale ales for me are sweet up front with a bitter or bitter-ish finish with lingering sweetness. IPAs are bitter upfront with the sweetness playing a supporting rather than a starring role in the sip. The finish is sweet-ish with lingering bitterness. Perfect example of an IPA is New Belgium's Voodoo Ranger IPA and a perfect example of a Pale Ale is Odell's 5-Barrel Pale Ale.

A definition as personal as can be is only as good as the reinforcing Authority who supports it. And the definition of an Authority organization is only as good as the brewers who are willing to accept them. I have learned over the years that the Craft Beer community is a courteous yet rebellious bunch!

 

This is where I have an issue with incorrectly categorizing a beer. The stronger versions more often than not rate higher than their lower alcohol brethren. As a result, some great versions of a style (and one's that are more accurate to the style description) are buried in the "top rated" list by higher ABV monsters.

Although this seems to not be as big of an issue today with IPAs/pale ales, as they all have tended to trend higher in ABV.

But that brown ale category is really a mess...is this a list of brown ales or high octane lattes from Starbucks?

1. Founders Underground Mountain Brown (11.9%)
2. Funky Buddha French Toast...seriously, a brown ale? (8.8%)
3. Founders Sumatra Mountain Brown (9%)
4. Surly Cacao Bender (5.5%....phew, a lower ABV)
5. Firestone Bravo 2017 (13.2%....nope, ruined it again)
6. Prairie Coffee Okie (13%)
7. Dogfish Palo Santo Marron (12%)
8. Funky Buddha No Crusts (6%...still a dessert/breakfast beer, but hey, lowish ABV!)
9. Surly Coffee Bender (5.5%, not overly egregious here)
10. Funky Buddha Don't Tell Reece (a 9.3% beer that is a "double brown ale would make a certain candy-maker very jealous! Waves of peanut butter and chocolate layer in this rich, bold, big brown ale to create a unique drinking experience."

Ok, I'll just stop there...

 

Tree House is a good case of ABV being a cutoff. All their APAs are in the 5.1-5.8. Now, all their IPAs have an ABV >6% with the glaring exception of Baby Bright, which brings me to my next point about taste and perception.

My first session IPA, Smuttynose Bouncy House, tasted pretty much like that. APAs should definitely be more balanced and less bitter than a Session as the malt balances the hop. For low ABV IPAs that aren't 'session' their can be some penumbra when it comes to removing/inserting "India." It's comforting to some to have a hard, cold, calculated cutoff dictated by an unflinching ABV threshold. While to others, exceeding that threshold is a brewer's marketing choice trying to be rebels in every sense of the word; and, we only come to realize we were missing something until they present us with that flavor profile they knew we wanted, but never demanded. Much in the same way that IIPA seems to start at anything over 8%, IPA has the goldilock zone between 6-8. Why can't the ABV cutoff between APA/IPA be so uncomplicated?

I should find a third quote to segue, but enough people have pointed out the evolution of beer styles at this point in the thread. Some have pointed out that IPAs in the 1800s were for 6 months under extreme conditions. Would this recreate flavors we expect from a modern IPA? Modern APA? Modern EIPA? Maybe if I drank a shelf turd I'd get a better answer, but not the right answer because the time and space we live in alter our perceptions/definitions of reality. As my answer is starting to get warped, there exists in the twilight zone of about 6% certain beers of a certain malt/hop characters that could be called delicious.

 

When rating American style pale ales, I usually go with the brewer's self-defined style. Short of that, I go with the style as defined on this site.

When comparing and contrasting beers for the purpose of deciding to purchase them repeatedly, I generally rank them by ABV (<6%, 6%-8%, 8%+).

 

The secret lies in the last two letters, PA. A Pale Ale is a class of beer brewed substantially using Pale Malt, the name goes back for centuries to differentiate from beers brewed using Brown malt. Strength and hopping rates have nothing to do with it.

 

when I used to fly Northwest more often, I used to find myself at airport bars in Minneapolis drinking Summit EPA several times a year. Haven't flown Northwestern for probably a decade...I miss that beer! I used to find it on tap at Old Chicago restaurants out here back in the Oughts but never see it anymore. I suppose they stopped distro to CO?

 

From the style categories here on BA:

Pale Ales

• Bitter - English
• Bitter - English Extra Special / Strong Bitter (ESB)
• Blonde Ale - Belgian *
• Blonde Ale - American
• Farmhouse Ale - Bière de Garde *
• Farmhouse Ale - Saison *
• Kölsch
• Mild Ale - English Pale
• Pale Ale - American
• Pale Ale - Belgian
• Pale Ale - English
• Red Ale - American Amber / Red *
• Red Ale - Irish

 

Yes, they pulled back on their distribution a few years ago. Their web site says they are only in 5 states. While the web site does not list the states, I assume the states are all border states to MN (but I don't know that).

BTW, Northwest Airlines no longer exists.

 

Right back at ya!

 

Wow am I out of the loop! Merger w/ Delta in 2008, I see.

What happened, I think, is that for me Southwest's emerging dominance from its Denver hub and its expansion into all the markets where I needed to go--mostly Virginia/DC but also Michigan, and NYC-- has made me pretty much a Southwest only guy, apparently for longer than I remembered. I was totally unaware of this, thought maybe they just de-emphasized and then moved out of DEN.

Surprised to see Summit EPA only at 84 rating on this site; this is a GABF gold medal winner as recently as 2016. No Citra though!

 

I brewed a beer with pale malt that has the following stats:
IBU - 45
SRM - 8
OG - 1.058
FG - 1.012
ABV - 5.9%

What style is it?


I know! I will call it I[don't care]PA.

 

You answered a part of your own question indirectly, Session and Dry IPAs upset the abv brackets. I’ve seen Session IPAs under 4% and they’re correspondingly horrible. Comes back to brewers discretion on the labeling within reason of course, there’s money in IPAs, perhaps not so much with Pale Ales, could be that simple.

 

Awe, what's wrong with Pennsylvania now?

 

Summit and Summit EPA have been around since 1986. Mark Stutrud, the founder, has always emphasized traditional brewing practices and has been very reluctant to chase the trends, beyond a few half-hearted attempts here and there.

Summit EPA is an old school English-style pale ale.

As a result, the kool kids vastly underrate it and them, IMO.

 

TPA for the people who have to work on weekends to get those darn reports to their manager.