Why doesn't Biere de Garde get any love?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Hodgson, Feb 17, 2015.

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  1. babaracas

    babaracas Initiate (0) Jan 30, 2008 Florida

    3 Monts blonde and amber are widely available and excellent.
    Cuvee des Jonquilles is a fantastic saison-ish biere de garde.
     
    #41 babaracas, Feb 18, 2015
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  2. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I think I'm going to have to grab some of the old world examples and try to figure out what this style is really all about. I've had plenty of US examples, but they've been so different from one another I question if they're authentic at all.
    I think the only French one I've had was a pale 3 Monts and that was many years ago.
     
    #42 Domingo, Feb 18, 2015
  3. Hodgson

    Hodgson Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2014 Canada (ON)

    Well, I think the French ones may be similar in their diversity. I would assume originally a garde was an ale-type beer, also one stocked (garde in French - kept or stored) for some months. However, some gardes, maybe most, are really more lagers due to their fermentation characteristics. So, some are perhaps more like lagers long-stored. Some are dark, some light. Based on the original group familiar to many North Americans in the 90's (Choulette, Jenlain, Ch'ti, Trois Monts, etc.) I'd say in general they were malt-oriented, often brown, perhaps like English milds of the 1800's except for the color sometimes. Some seemed quite Belgian, e.g. Sans Culottes or Jonquilles, some more British in style. So, higher ABV, good malt characteristics, moderate hopping and a stored character. Still kind of vague and today with many more new brewers in the far north of France, the scene is probably more complex. But maybe a definite regional style has emerged.

    The beer writers should take note and if anyone doubts that the area is pretty (often) and unique amongst the French countrysides, look at the pictures put up yesterday at www.barclayperkins.blogspot.com. These were taken in Lille and Arras.

    Hey maybe the bros should travel forthwith to Lille and write up something for the magazine.
     
    #43 Hodgson, Feb 18, 2015
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  4. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm glad I saw this thread. This is a type of beer I've never put much thought into so I'm really curious to learn more about it.
     
    #44 Domingo, Feb 18, 2015
  5. TylerKitchens

    TylerKitchens Initiate (0) Apr 9, 2014 Massachusetts

    #45 TylerKitchens, Feb 18, 2015
  6. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That one's a biere de champagne. Aside from the special fermentation process, the brewer claims it's akin to a Belgian strong golden ale.
     
    #46 zid, Feb 18, 2015
  7. TylerKitchens

    TylerKitchens Initiate (0) Apr 9, 2014 Massachusetts

    Damn, I thought I knew what we were talking about...
     
    #47 TylerKitchens, Feb 18, 2015
  8. Hodgson

    Hodgson Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2014 Canada (ON)

    I've been rooting around in google books, there's quite a bit of general description of the type of beers common in and around Lille, France in the mid-1800's. Most of it is in French but anyone with college French should be able to read it.

    They say there were 3 types of (generally) brown beer: double biere de garde, ordinary brown, and small beer. I didn't see the alcohol analysis but I'd guess the double was 6-8%, the regular 4-5, the small 1-2: table beer, still made in Belgium and France. Some descriptions refer to the beers as sweet in distinction to bitter and tart beers. The gardes were stored for 6-8 months and the beers had very long boils, 6-8 hours or more. I think Michael Jackson had referred to this as a trait of biere de garde.

    A number of well-known gardes sort of have this general profile, Jenlain (albeit it is a lager I believe), some of the Ch'ti line, certainly la Bavasienne which is a rich sweetish ale-type beer around 7% ABV. Gavroche is another one with this kind of palate.

    But that was then and clearly the term has a broader meaning today judging by the diversity even of the current French examples.
     
    #48 Hodgson, Feb 18, 2015
  9. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Because people who have loud opinions about stuff prefer their beer brickwalled with flavor and filled with manliness.
     
    #49 MostlyNorwegian, Feb 18, 2015
  10. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    #50 gopens44, Feb 18, 2015
  11. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    I drank a bunch while on holiday in Sedan, France. All were from small, local producers. Some were sour, but all the ones I tried except for one had a strong Brett presence. Although I'm not sure if this was intentional or not. It would be nice if some of these BDGs could make it stateside. Awesome style.
     
    #51 bushycook, Feb 18, 2015
  12. Dupage25

    Dupage25 Savant (1,044) Jul 4, 2013 Antarctica

    It's telling that all five of the top five rated bieres de garde on Beeradvocate are barrel-aged, brewed with brettanomyces and at least lightly soured.

    I really like Oro de Calabaza, was a bit less impressed with JP Biere de Mars (still good though). Only had it once but I liked 3 Monts Grande Reserve as well. Two Brothers Domain Dupage tastes like an Irish red ale to me, it's so toasted.
     
    #52 Dupage25, Feb 18, 2015
  13. Hodgson

    Hodgson Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2014 Canada (ON)

    Interesting on the last two posts because anything aged 6-8 months in wood in the mid-1800's may well have had a brett influence or a sour note, so these current versions are probably quite authentic.

    I remember drinking some of the last bottles available of Saint Landelin from Rimaux, an abbey brewery on the French side of the former Belgian-French frontier (closed 1988). These were slightly tart, but I was never sure if that was the "taste" or the bottles just became a bit sour with a couple of years age on them. It was somewhat like Rodenbach but not as sour, in color too. A beer called Saint Landelin is still made, by the Gayant brewery, an old regional concern in Douai, which bought the labels from Rimaux.
     
    #53 Hodgson, Feb 18, 2015
  14. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I love the real ones, but you have to go there mostly to know them. IMHO.
     
    #54 azorie, Feb 18, 2015
  15. afsdan

    afsdan Savant (1,129) Dec 17, 2010 Colorado

    Diebolt Brewery in Denver (3855 Mariposa) does a few good examples of BdG
     
    #55 afsdan, Feb 18, 2015
  16. twb0392

    twb0392 Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2014 Wisconsin

    Because its not 100IBUs and 10%abv.
     
    #56 twb0392, Feb 18, 2015
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Nah, consider yourself fortunate... I'd love to try that beer you mentioned.
     
    #57 zid, Feb 18, 2015
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  18. Brutalism_X

    Brutalism_X Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2013 Maryland

    One of the first beers that got me into craft was Flying Dog's Garde Dog. Loved that stuff. Sadly I think its been discontinued.
     
    #58 Brutalism_X, Feb 18, 2015
  19. TylerKitchens

    TylerKitchens Initiate (0) Apr 9, 2014 Massachusetts

    Great name
     
    #59 TylerKitchens, Feb 18, 2015
  20. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I've actually had at least one of those. I think I'm more interested in the classical old-world examples for now. I figure I'll shoot for the traditional hallmarks so I have something to compare the craft versions to. For instance, I prefer Elevation's Third Base to any Belgian Tripels I've had...but it doesn't taste anything like any of 'em! I want to establish a baseline expectation.
     
    #60 Domingo, Feb 18, 2015
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